Adam Gase Thread (Merged)

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Longsuffering88, Sep 16, 2019.

  1. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    Outside runs probably wouldn't work our offensive line anyway. Gase probably thinks a gain of 1 or 2 is better than a loss of 4 or 5
     
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  2. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    You're wrong here. I don't know how to rip video from all-22 footage but if you saw the play you'd see why it's awful. Griffin looks like he is breaking at the marker but he's not, he continues the route. This could have been by design or because he saw Sam forced out of the pocket. That's not even my biggest issue.

    Crowder and Anderson end up within feet of each other before Anderson takes off and Crowder continues his route (both of which happened after Sam was pressured). The fact that the OL was getting obliterated and on 3rd and 3, our coach called a play in which two receivers don't even get halfway through the route 3 seconds into the play and both are 17+ yards beyond the sticks is a bad decision. Not to mention he's got absolutely nothing going over the middle at the sticks which allows the safety or LB in coverage (I can't tell) to sit there basically eliminating Thomas from the play.

    Sam should have checked down. He also didn't have time to because 2 seconds after getting the ball he was pressured and nearly sacked, which had been a theme that drive and the drive before. So knowing your OL is playing awful, you send two guys 17 yards downfield on 3rd and 3, send one guy to the marker (assuming Griffin continuing the route was improv) and the pass-catching stud RB to the blind side all while leaving the middle of the field empty other than for one guy. It's a bad playcall. It just is.
     
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  3. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    So even with that explanation he has three out of five players that have the ability to get the first down. And two players to draw safety attention away from the guys at the markers. Not every pass play is designed to have every single player as an option to convert for yardage. It's not like a quarterback is thinking about his fourth and fifth read on any given play. If he ever gets to his third or fourth read then he is going to scramble immediately after.

    Again, there's no separation for any of those players.

    Every offense is going to struggle with the pressure Sam faced all day on Sunday and all season long. We have no running game to stop any of that pressure. Do you want to just throw quick outs all day and wait for the pick sixes to pile up?

    Sorry but our best chance to win games is for Sam to wing the ball around the yard. He's responsible for getting the ball out quickly too you know.

    The ball is designed to go to Griffin there or a sideline throw on the flag to the middle receiver. I don't like running tightends on quick outs because of their inability to make a man miss. Especially a stiff athlete like Griffin. But we also have extremely limited options at receiver at this point.

    Crowder breaks to the flag and Anderson runs a streak. What's the issue with that? That's a play that shouldn't be wrecked by front four pressure and should convert. If you don't want to run plays like that, then we have to run short 5 yard stops up and down the field.
     
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  4. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    that play is a quick read. the main read wasn't open initially so then everyone had to take their route options. Anderson is not so good at picking options, its possible he chose the wrong one. Gase can control play designs in practice but he cannot control things once the ball is snapped, duh. football 101
     
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  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I think there has been some hyperbole on both sides of the issues, and as usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Saying that "It's a complete overhaul job." is hyperbole. If the Jets had to replace their entire OL, WR corps and RB corps, then yes, it would be a complete overhaul of the offense, but not the whole team. Adding another WR and RB, plus some new OL is not a "complete overhaul." I don't think that Douglas will include replace the entire OL this offseason. I think it will take at least 2 offseasons. That's just not realistic imo, even if it is needed. The draft and FA would have to fall perfectly for us, and Douglas would pretty much have to ignore the WR, CB and Edge positions in order to make that happen.

    I don't think that we have more talent than the Lions. I think we definitely have better talent than the Dolphins and probably better than the Bengals, but could be wrong.

    With regards to the Dolphins, they do not have a Jamal Adams, Le'Veon Bell, CJ Mosley or even Jamison Crowder on their roster. I just took a look at their roster. They may have the youngest team in the NFL. Fitz, John Jenkins, J'Markus Webb, Marcus Sherels, Aqib Talib (on IR) and Daniel Kilgore are the only players older than 30. They don't even have a lot of players that I've ever heard of. They have Devante Parker, a talented WR who did little under Gase; Fitz; J'Markus Webb, Allen Hurns, Raekwon McMillan, Eric Rowe, Clive Walford, and Albert Wilson as the veteran players of which I know a little about.

    They also have a few rookies and young players that I remember from recent drafts like Josh Rosen, Mike Gesicki, Christian Wilkins, Gerald Willis, Myles Gaskin, Michael Dieter, Julién Davenport, Taco Charlton, Kalen Ballage, and Vince Biegel. The rest of their players I've never even heard of.

    Obviously, the players must fit the system, must be well coached, and the young players must be developing there. Their roster may be better overall because they have players that fit their system and have a lot of young players who were rated pretty highly in their respective drafts, but we have more big-time talent than they do.

    I don't follow the Dolphins, so I don't know if their HC, OC and DC are willing and capable of making adjustments in game, but imo they're winning games that a team with their talent level shouldn't be winning. But I may be wrong. Perhaps a lot of the players of whom I've never heard are pretty solid players. It just strikes me as weird that a team that traded away all of their top players (especially on offense), who was learning new systems, and was supposedly tanking for a QB, is playing as competitively/well as they are and have won as many or more games than we have.

    In your first paragraph you cite that we have 118 more yards on the ground , only average ten more ypg, and have allowed 3 less sacks. They have no one at RB. Their leading rusher is someone named Mark Walton and he has 201 yards. The fact that we only have 118 more yards and only average 10 more yards per game is an indictment of Gase!

    Their OL consists of Julién Davenport at LT, Michael Deiter (R) at LG, Daniel Kilgore at C (9-year vet who has only started the majority of the games the last 4 seasons), Evan Boehm at RG (who is with his 3rd team in 4 seasons and has never started the majority of his team's games until this season, and Jesse Davis (WHO?) at RT (interesting that he has started most of the games for the Dolphins the last 3 seasons, but on his NFL profile he is listed as an OG, not an OT). Do you really think that OL is better than ours?

    The one thing that Fitz does well is make pre-snap reads, decides where he's going with the ball, and then gets the ball out quickly soon after it is snapped. Otherwise, we might have 20 less sacks. I think our team is definitely more talented than the Dolphins, and there's no way that we should have lost to them. That is on squarely on Gase imo.

    We knew at the outset that our talent was very thin at WR, CB, OL and Edge. We did have great depth at ILB, but that has evaporated. We had a good, young TE, but a suspension and injury wrecked his season, but we had pretty good depth behind him in Griffin. We have a good young QB, one of the best S tandems in the NFL, a good DL, excellent depth at RB and a former All Pro starting RB who is a dual threat, and one of the better slot WRs in the NFL.

    I don't think that Gase is as awful as many, but he certainly seems stubborn and inflexible, and insistent upon his system rather than adapting to the talent on the team. His play calling is suspect, his lack of adjustments is puzzling if not infuriating, and the lack of discipline of the players and their showing up flat too often is an indictment of Gase. Losing twice in one season to winless teams in inexcusable, and nearly unforgivable, as is not even being competitive and being a total embarrassment in some games. I'm willing to give him a second season and chance after Douglas has an offseason, and has the opportunity to upgrade the talent level, and add players who better fit the systems.

    Now, after looking at all that teal, I have to go gouge my eyes out.
     
    #2565 NCJetsfan, Dec 4, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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  6. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    Robby ran a go route so this explanation goes right out the window. You can't choose your own route at the LOS before the snap. That's part of the play design. Football 101.
     
  7. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    You're missing my actual gripe here... it was 3rd and 3. Why are you calling a play that takes more than 3 seconds to develop when you have a QB running for his life after 2 seconds every time he drops back? You're basically asking a bunch of guys to win one on one matchups except for the guy over the middle who is double teamed because of the way you designed the play?
     
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  8. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Really? Have you never heard of option routes? It's based on the leverage the defender shows you. Do you not see our receivers pointing before the balls snapped?

    Because the ball is designed to go to the quick out with the read up to the flag. Route. It's a leverage read. The ball should go to Griffin immediately if he has leverage. If not it reads up to the flag and if there's pressure there's a backside check down and in breaking route by Thomas.

    This was also our third drive of the game. With an offensive line that's looked a little bit better the past two weeks, I'm not sure why the assumption is that the leagues third worst pass rush would dominate us without a blitz?
     
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  9. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    some folks just don't understand the game. there is a defense out there, its not pitch & catch in the backyard.
     
  10. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware of how this works but again I'm talking about THIS play and THIS situation. There was nothing happening at the line.

    Because he had already been sacked twice and pressured plenty? I understand the point of the play. You keep explaining it like I don't know how it's supposed to work. My point is calling that play WHEN HE CALLED IT.

    You are very right and you don't even know why.
     
  11. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Dude. I really respect the hell out of all the effort you put into your posts. But space things out. That massive paragraph is a nightmare to read through.

    But if we don't overhaul this offense, then our front office is flat out stupid. We have $75 million in cap space. We've spent 10/11 first round picks on defense and the majority of our free agent money has been allocated to the defense.

    I'd really be ok with just saying fuck the defense at this point and worry about it next off-season. We have our safeties, inside linebackers and defensive line in place. We need edge help and corner help, but I'd rather not see our young quarterback become Sanchez because we ignored his side of the ball.
     
  12. Petrozza

    Petrozza Administrator

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    Two words: Offensive line

    If you have a quality offensive line, you can get by with an average RB and a decent QB. A 5th round rookie RB would have done better than Bell this season if the Jets' line was like Dallas' in the 90s. Build the line, then worry about the rest.
     
  13. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    I can’t say for sure,no one but the players really can but , assuming gase is running something like what Peyton Manning likes to do, the wrs do pick their routes at the LOS base on the coverage. The idea is to have the qb and wr see the same thing and run accordingly.
     
  14. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    That was actually the second time he was sacked, so be was sacked once up until that point.

    If you understand the play, then why did you say there's only one guy running a short route in your initial post?

    And assuming you understand the play, my question is what are better play calls in these given scenarios? The play works if someone can separate and the pressure doesn't destroy the pocket immediately. If the pressure was as quick as you say on that given play, then it seems like regardless of the play call it was destined to be a sack.
     
  15. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    Man I feel like we're going in circles here. Let's leave it at this: since his days in Miami, Gase has been railed on for his playcalling. The day we hired him I got a text from a friend who is a Dolphins fan that said "get ready to throw on 3rd and 1 and run on 3rd and 8". So far that's been pretty accurate. The entire thing can be traced back to the horrendous gameplan put together by Gase. It was mentioned countless times on the broadcast. Cincy had the worst run D in the league and teams were annihilating them on the edges because they are actually decent on the interior. How many times did we run Bell period, let alone running him outside the tackles? I dunno, this seems like common sense to me when you're heading into a game that anyone with a brain and two eyes can see calls for a script that involves running your stud RB.

    My apologies on the sack, misread the play list. But the pressure had been there plenty. On our opening drive which was actually a very good drive, he was pressured on 4 of his 7 drop backs and avoided what could have easily been 2 sacks.
     
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  16. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. And maybe that's why Gase is a horrible coach. He's trying to do what works with the most cerebral QB of all time but with Ryan Tannehill, Brock Osweiller and a 22 year old playing in his second season.
     
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  17. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    the bears are kind of proving that wrong. they have a good o-line, good D, 2 good WRs and a decent 3rd. but RB and QB are kind of killing them
     
  18. Petrozza

    Petrozza Administrator

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  19. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Just because you get a bunch of targets and receptions doesn't mean you are being used effectively. How many were just basic check-downs? How many times have we put him in the slot? Out wide? People were shocked to see him catch that ball in the Raiders game, there needs to be some improvement in how he's used. I never thought Bell was an explosive player at any point in his career. Great hands, able to make you miss, but he was never explosive in terms of speed and such.

    Outside runs might not be the answer, but you have to keep the defense honest. You can't just run inside every single running play. Get some TEs out there like Wesco and find a way to make it work. Jumbo packages, you have to try something else other then the typical run on the inside.
     
  20. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    Why are you assuming that Sam is getting it wrong?
     

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