Adam Gase Thread (Merged)

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Longsuffering88, Sep 16, 2019.

  1. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    there it is again "or at least remaining competitive"

    yet another poster where it matters to them how close the team loses by. very interesting. I guess that's why these NFL coaches play so conservatively
     
  2. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    I think you're miscontruing what I'm trying to say. I hate losing, and actually from the very beginning I thought Gase was a bad hire, and I maintained from early in the season that Gase was not the answer. But losing can be done in a way where the future can appear to be bright.

    For example, we were all excited about Sam Darnold last season and all thought that despite the losses last season, Sam would progress to be a franchise QB. If my team is going up against better teams, and putting up a fight for 4 quarters, but we don't have the horses to pull through then you can chalk it up to a lack of talent. What I'm trying to say is, not only are the jets woefully weak at many positions due to bad drafting, Adam Gase was brought in with the hope he could help Sam get better, and also help the offense evolve.

    What we ended up getting was the absolute opposite.

    Again, losing sucks, no one wants it, but had we been competing every game, seeing progress with this team, and maybe finished 7-9 or 8-8, I think the tune across the board would be much much more understanding of why we're losing. Right now we look like a directionless team, headed by a HC who can't call a game to save his life, and can't prepare his team
     
  3. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    I love Bob a lot and he's right when he talks about how bad this roster is, but that is not and should not be used as an excuse for how poor the coaching has been this year. Bowles and Co coached a less talented team to 4 wins that should've been 6.
     
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  4. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The six blockers blocking two guys vs. A three man rush kind of did it for me. The offensive line disorganization is embarrassing and should've taken one hour and a half time slot in practice to fix. Teams get beat by blitzes. But not like we've been beaten and certainly not at the rate we've been beaten.

    It's less of a talent issue than it is a disorganization issue. The Jaguars game was a talent issue in certain spots. When Ngakoue and Allen (ugh) were straight up beating the tackles on a couple of plays. But the free runners with four or five men rushes is unbelievably bad for any NFL franchise.
     
  5. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly 100% agree. You can have a bad roster and still be well coached. Adam Gase is just as bad as he was in Miami so for me this is just a continuation of him being a bad HC
     
  6. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    I'm not misconstruing what you are trying to say at all, I get it. Here is a question for you

    Suppose Gase scrapped his offense today, figured out that this team is shit and the best opportunity to keep these games close is:

    -to line up with Darnold under center all game
    -power run sets, with multiple tight ends
    - run the ball with Bell/Powell/Montgomery 30 times
    - handcuff Darnold, he only throws 15-20 passes, mostly safe passes, some play action
    -always kick (punt/FG) on 4th down

    The Jets would still lose, but closer this time. Are you still lighting Gase's ass up? Are we flying planes and billboards?

    ----

    that's exactly what Bowles did with Darnold by the way, thats what Rex did with Geno and Sanchez, that's what "offensive genius" Matt Nagy has resigned to doing with Trubisky in Chicago. Probably because they wanted to avoid the planes and billboards!!!

    but would it develop Darnold any better? I don't think so. So what is the purpose? Just to make us feel all warm and cozy about losing???????
     
  7. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    If the games closer, you can win more games. And it seems like it's what should be done as you feed the quarterback more and more each week as his career progresses.

    Look at the Colts and Jacoby Brissett's progression. Every single game has been decided by a touchdown or less and he's not setting the world on fire either. But he's been coached into efficiency.

    Darnold is being spread out in 4 and 5 wide and getting slaughtered without the help of a running game or his offensive line. Maybe he isn't a quarterback that should be in that spread approach? Maybe he IS made to be under center and can be damn good at it. Some guys are. Brissett is.

    I think Gase may think a little too much of Darnold at this point and is forcing this spread "West Coast Offense" on him.

    This is part of the problem with the coaching carousel though. A coach brings his system in. Wants the players to learn it and then can tweak it as they see fit. And they're out the door before those tweaks can happen. I still think Gase has been a garbage head coach, but he's had limited time to see what does and doesn't work for Darnold.
     
    #2067 Jonathan_Vilma, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  8. Doreblade

    Doreblade Active Member

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    Summed it up nicely for me. Remit to Gase was 'be competitive' - and that state we are most certainly further from now than we were under Bowles. I see no redeeming graces at this halfway point so swallow your pride Johnsons and get rid.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
     
  9. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    I haven't watched the Colts enough to know if you are accurate about their system or not. Frank Reich is a hell of a football coach though. I doubt they are handcuffing their QB

    Your last question I disagree with though. if the offensive line and running game sucks, why is the solution to put the QB closer to the line and run the ball more? The answer is....

    its NOT a solution, it would just generate 2 yard gains & losses instead of the crazy shit we have been seeing. Jets lose 17-9, we don't really get to see if Darnold is good or not

    no billboards though, I guess
     
  10. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    How many games would you expect Miami to have won last year and the year before with their roster and a good NFL coach.
     
  11. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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  12. HerndonFan

    HerndonFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    Or it's Chris telling Adam, "Your job is safe. I don't care what the fans want."
     
  13. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to look at the glass half full over here LOL!
     
  14. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Cimini forgot to point out Loggains standing right next to Gase.
     
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  15. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Excellent response! IMO there's no reason to fire Douglas if we fire Gase. Yes, Gase recommended/pushed for Douglas, but Douglas has merit on his own. It's not like he only got the job because he's a friend of Gase's. AFAIK he is THE most qualified GM candidate we've ever hired, or at least is the most qualified in the last 30 years.

    Hopefully, the Johnsons will turn over the job of running the club to Douglas. If not, then they really need to hire a VP of Football Operations who will determine the systems we will run, and all future coaches (at least for the foreseeable future) will run the same systems, so even if we change coaches, we won't change systems and won't have to turnover the roster. This is where we can gain stability.

    I don't know what Jim Kensil's resume was before becoming President and GM of the Jets (1977-1987), but if Douglas can draft anywhere near as well as Kensil we'll win at least one SB if not multiple SBs. I'm not sure if Kensil or Al Ward ran the 1977 draft, but it probably was the greatest draft in Jets' history. If not, it's one of the top 2-3 drafts. In that draft, we added the following players:

    1 - Marvin Powell, OT
    2 - Wesley Walker, WR
    4 - Scott Dierking, RB
    6 - Joe Klecko, DT/DE
    7 - Kevin Long, RB
    8 - Dan Alexander, OG
    9 - Matt Robinson, QB

    Other players Kensil added were (all of whom played at least 40 games for the Jets):

    1978 - Chris Ward OT, Mark Merrill LB, Mickey Shuler TE, Bobby Jackson DB, Greg Robinson DE, Derrick Gaffney WR, & Pat Ryan QB
    1979 - Marty Lyons DT, Mark Gastineau DE, Johnny Lynn DB, & Stan Blinka LB
    1980 - Darroll Ray DB, Lance Mehl LB, & Guy Bingham C (Johnny "Lam" Jones WR was the only real negative)
    1981 - Freeman McNeil RB, Marion Barber RB, Ben Rudolph DT, Tyrone Keys DT, John Woodring LB, & Kenny Neil DE
    1982 - Bob Crable LB, Reggie McElroy OT, Mark Jerue LB, & Rocky Klever TE
    1983 - Ken O'Brien QB, Johnny Hector RB, Jo-Jo Townsell WR, Davlin Mullen DB, Bobby Humphrey DB, & Dan Fike OG
    1984 - He swung and missed on Russell Carter CB & Ron Faurot DE, but added Jim Sweeney C, Kyle Clifton LB, Tony Paige RB, Harry Hamilton DB, Billy Griggs TE & Tom Baldwin NT
    1985 - Al Toon WR, Lester Lyles, DB, Donnie Elder DB, Troy Benson LB, Rich Miano DB, Matt Monger LB, & Kerry Glenn DB

    His 1986 and 1987 drafts were pretty awful, and he had evidently lost whatever magic he had, but he had quite a run between '77 and '85
     
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  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Firing Douglas would be incredibly stupid! We'd never get a quality candidate to interview for a job with the Jets again. Talk about being a circus and making themselves the laughing stock of the NFL!!! Hire a really qualified GM candidate after FA and the Draft, and then fire him before he even gets to run a FA or draft. Dude, sorry, that has to be the worst idea I have ever seen posted on any Jets fan site. SMH
     
  17. Andy_M

    Andy_M Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to be all Negative Nancy here, but it is pretty obvious at this point that he is not going to fire Gase. This team is not going to be relevant for another 4-5 years. Really hard to turn a team around quickly when you have to replace 90% of it's roster. Once the fan base is over the initial shock of this season, the voices will fade and Gase will be good for another year or two before the FO wakes up.

    It's over guys, we are back to square 1.....again.
     
  18. JetsNation06

    JetsNation06 Well-Known Member

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    I really hope so. He's one of the very few names out there that would have me truly amped up.
     
  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Kitchens wasn't the interim HC in Cleveland. Williams was!!! He wasn't suggesting hiring Williams or Cooter as the new HC, but rather letting one of them serve as the interim HC for the remainder of the season, and then hiring a new HC during the offseason. Williams went 5-3 as the Browns interim HC.

    Don't even mention Rex Ryan in jest!!!! :mad::mad::mad::confused::confused::confused::eek::eek::eek:
     
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  20. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I watch the Colts a fair amount as a Sunday Ticket subscriber and given that the Jets games have been over at half time for most of the season.

    I guess it's an unfair comparison because Brissett stands behind a brick wall. I don't think it's so much that he's handcuffed as it is that it's taylored to things he's good at and they run a lot of crossing patterns and a lot of off tackle/outside runs. They do so because that's where the strength of line is along with runningback.

    They don't roll him out a lot because he's not particularly athletic, but when they do, the play makes sense. I.e. three runs for 17 yards in a row and one first down, and then they'll run a play action pass.

    We run Le'Veon out of a shotgun formation up the middle for three yards on 4 carries. And then stick Sam under center to run a play action shot play. The flow of play calling is confusing. And we did the same thing with Siemien and then Falk against the Browns. With no running game in site, we decide to start running play action passes with pulling guards and the quarterback kept getting swallowed.

    I don't know whether it'd keep the games closer or not, but the offense does need to be slowed down with more pro style sets because I think that's what Sam is better with. I don't think we've run play action out of shotgun this year, which is the formation all of the runs come from. It's befuddling.

    But it seems like by your account you're all for the spread offense and well if the kid can't figure it out, fuck em, he must not be good enough. Rather than looking at his strengths and how he can excel at the present moment, and then push him towards being able to spread the field and understand what's happening. At this point, teams are just going to keep blitzing the fuck out of him in shotgun.
     
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