This year's second and next year's first. Ideally for Atl you'd be picking in the 20's next year anyway, especially after getting Abe.
I gotta tell ya, as most people on this board have echoed...The Jets are handling this situation so well... Because Herm might of given in to his old friend, McKay, for just their 2nd rounder...Mangini and Tannenbaum are making a stand, something we haven't seen in quite sometime.
Yes, I understand how that draft value concept works but that doesn't change the fact that the Jets want to get a pick in the first round. You keep asking the same idiotic question over and over and I'm giving you an answer. The 2nd and 3rd pick is not good enough because the Jets want a 1st round pick... not a couple picks that add up to what a 1st would be worth on some arbitrary value scale.
I don't have a value chart in front of me, but what pick do we have to toss in to equalize the 15th pick with what seattle is offering? Atlanta fans make it sound like it's just a value thing, so lets offer: Abe and our 5th, 6th, 7th and another 6th and 7th next year -for- the #15 overall What's the value chart say about that?
You would actually have to give Atlanta your 3rd and 4th, and we would still be beating Seattle's offer by 100 value points. See how much difference there is between that 31st pick you were offered and the 15th you want ?? So far as making up the difference in 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks. That could take 3 or 4 years, they hold almost no value on the chart. http://www.thehuddlereport.com/NickelPackage/tradevaluechart.htm The link is to the chart.
Unfortunately, the only way you guys get Abraham now is either you give your 1st pick or trade Seattle for their 1st pick. I hope Seattle gets him and he sacks Vick 4 times in a game in the NFC Championship.
We already have several low round picks...why would we want yours? It's time to get a quality pick for a quality player..don't think you're in the driver seat.
I get it. We have Abe - you do not. You want Abe - but on the cheap. You are asking one General Manager too late. This GM is not going to get less than what Abe is worth. To make an analogy - have you ever played fantasy football? Do you trade 1 star for two average guys? No - even though it might add up on a 'value chart'(Hey - LT averages as much points as Lamont and Westbrook together!) it doesn't add up in reality. A 47th and a 79th is not as good as the 31st. Sorry(Not really). If you feel the 15th isn't worth Abe - then move on. We are content with the 31st. I don't think it's the Jets beating down ATL's door for the 15th. I believe it is ATL beating down the Jets door for Abe.
To all all our slow friends to the south: (Not everyone in the South... you know who you are) For the love of God... Jets want a first round PICK. Atlanta is not offering a first round pick. Atlanta is offering first round VALUE Jets do not want first round VALUE. Jets want a first round PICK. Thus, the Jets will not take Atlanta's offer. Offer all the arithmetic you want. If it's not a first round PICK... A FIRST ROUND PICK... Jesus F-in Christ , a FIRST ROUND PICK, not first round VALUE... There will be no trade. I dont care if you disagree with what they are doing or why they are doing it. That's the way it is. Accept it. Now go to bed.
The thing is, Abe might decide he doesn't want to play in Seattle. Which means he won't agree to a long term deal, which means we can't trade him to Seattle.
Then in the best interest of our franchise's respectability we do not trade him. People look at Philly as if they made a huge mistake handling the TO incident. The biggest mistake they made was aquiring him in the 1st place. Holding strong on not negotiating a new deal will be remembered for a long time. Players will think twice about holding out in Philly. If we stand our ground here we have an opportunity to do the same thing. Tangini needs to look Abe squarely in the eyes and say "We do not negotiate with terrorists". "If you want a long term contract - go where we trade you or else". In poker you only have to play a strong hand once to be able to bluff. Get caught bluffing the 1st hand and you have to play it straight from then on.
As an aside - I read today in the NY Daily News today that the Jets are 14 million under the cap counting Abe's franchise #. That is plenty of room to do what we have to this offseason.
Well at least tonite you are being reasonable and not attempting a heist, so now I'll accord you the proper respect and tell you what I believe is more than fair for an IMPACT PLAYER of Abe's caliber Frankly the Jets are not going to land a player of Abe's caliber with the 31st Overall Pick unless they are extremely lucky, and the same is true of the 15th Overall Pick ... it's possible, but highly unlikely ... heck, it's tough to find a perenial all-pro in the TOP 5 much less 31 Overall or 15 Overall ... there has to be an element of luck, good fortune, outstanding scouting, or call it what you will ... ironically the Jets struck gold when they drafted Abe in that area I would also say there are around 10 elite prospects in this draft at the top of the board, then there is a dropoff and a very slim margin seperates the next 20+ 1st RD Graded Players, so there's really not much of a difference between the 15th and 31st Picks other than getting first dibs at the player you covet most the higher you are positioned ... but talent wise the margin becomes pretty slim after the elite prospects fall off the board ... and I'm not saying that as a negotiating ploy, it's sincerely how I view this draft as one who studies the draft very closely But because we are talking about a higher pick than 31, and regardless of the slim margin which separates that next tier of 1st RD Grades following the elite prospects {i.e. the next 20+}, the Jets should have to toss in a pick simply because 15 places them in a better position to draft one of the non elite 1st Rounders they most covet than if they are selecting 31 However, because the margin is so slim the pick should not be especially high Therefore the deal I deem fair is John Abraham and a 4th RD Pick {to replace the 4 you traded for Coker} for Atlanta's 1st RD Pick {15 Overall} Again, John Abraham is a bona-fide impact player in his prime {27 Years old}, who plays a premium position in the 43 defense {RDE}, and it's highly unlikely the Jets will even find a player who can approach his talent/skill at 15 to begin with {Tamba Hali?, I DON'T THINK SO} ... so in my view this deal is more than fair Am I wrong? PS. We have two 4's but I would be willing to make it our own 4 at the top of the board in that round, which make it similar to a late 3
Heh. I like the way you talk as if Atlanta fans agreeing with you would make it a done deal. I tend to agree though, I'd give up a 4th, 5th and 7th along with Abraham to get that first round pick, it's just a better opportunity at a really good player and I don't buy in to all this "value" stuff. A player's a player, you either get a good one or you don't, wherever you pick, it's just more likely that you'll get a good one early on.
Atlantafan, keep in mind the 31st overall can still provide you with a 1st round talent. Meanwhile, towards about the 40th overall is where you dwindle into 2nd-round prospects. Plus, the 15th overall is easier to trade up with than the 31st overall, meaning we give up less picks in later rounds, assuming that is their plan.
what atl fans don't get is that the player does not determine where he wants to go alone, its the teams decision first...i'd be willing to bet that the jets would allow him to sit out the year before they fold on this trade. Forget value, or any other metric you want to use. we want a 1st round pick. doesn't matter if its 1 or 31 we want a round 1 pick and if we don't get it, then we won't deal.
