If Westerman was more of a complete rusher, he should have more sacks in twice the playing time no? Maybin is the "best" rusher on this team. Dont be a hater and just admit what is obvious to everyone but you.
there is a serious difference between the guy with the most sacks, and the best pass rusher. better pass rusher? Bold indicates more sacks at this moment in time. Brian Orakpo or Ryan Kerrigan? James Harrison or Lamar Woodley? Andre Carter or Julius Peppers? Demarcus Ware or Jared Allen? Dwight Freeney or Connor Barwin? Aaron Maybin or Jamaal Westerman? going back to the Maybin Vs. Westerman debate... The guy who has the best technique is westerman. Maybin is getting better, but his technique is still poor. He still gets run out of far to many plays. Westerman doesnt see many 1 on 1 matchups any more, because teams recognize he has been our best pass rusher. Westerman's sack today was damn impressive, he flat out destroyed the Skins left tackle 1 on 1 in about 2 seconds. Westerman has the larger variety of moves and is much more consistent (in terms of not being run out of the play). Plus he is the better run defender, by a country mile. Which is much more of an indictment on how poor Maybin is in that area than how good westerman is. Maybin has one thing over westerman, and that is pure, raw speed. Westerman is more under control and has more power. Maybin has racked up the coverage sacks due to the great motor he has. Westerman hasn't been able to do that, which is to maybin's credit. but Westerman is the better overall player, and better overall pass rusher. Maybin is electric though isnt he? Give Maybin credit for taking advantage of the 1 on 1's he has been given, but Westerman has seen very few of them this year, the one he got today, he definately took advantage of.
This post above this one is quite good. The snaps debate is hilarious. Seriously. If you don't know why Maybin sees limited snaps, then you don't know football.
Sacking the QB late in the game and forcing turnovers cannot be underestimated. Those are the kind of plays that win games. Maybin has proven that he is a game changer in the past two weeks. The Jets have not had a player like that since Abraham left. Having Maybin, who can sack the QB and force those turnovers that ice a game when the Jets are protecting a lead late in the game, is a luxury few teams have. Remember, when he came to the Jets, he had no confidence and was about 20 pounds under his playing weight. Give this guy an offseason to put on weight and go through OTAs and the Jets may have found a pass rusher. And if they are coverage sacks he is getting, why is he the only player getting them? No other Jet is a pure pass rusher. What a find!!
What Maybin are you watching? The ones from the last 2 years or the one this year? The last 2-3 games, he is not getting run out of very many plays. Not all the time does the outside rusher always get to the qb. Just because sometimes he gets pushed around the QB, doesn't mean it has no affect at all. The QB still has to step up and he has used a variety of different moves these last 3+ weeks. Not all of Maybins sacks are due to coverage sacks either. 2 of his last 3 were ALL Maybin. And double teams on Westerman? I cant recall that ive seen any on him at all. Maybin is what he is. He is a pure pass rusher. We arent asking him to come in and play the run at all. He is in there for one sole reason and he is the best on the team at that. We have plenty of people who are "good at the run" like Westerman. What this team has lacked for a long time (since J Abe) is a pass rusher and its looking more and more like Maybin could be what this team has been missing. Based off of Maybins hurries and sacks so far in limited playing time, what d coordinator would be more scared of Westerman? Please....
What did i ever say to come off that i never knew why he didnt receive more snaps? You make no sense...
Lets just be happy that we have to debate on who the best pass rusher is. Both players are young, and both will be with us for awhile. I think Maybin has the higher ceiling, and that comes from hustle/speed/and most important heart.
Agreed 100%. People can complain all they want about coverage sacks but he is the only one that seems to get them. I just hope adding another 10-15 lbs doesn't slow him down. We all remember how Ellis was a very good pass rusher when he first got here and added weight and didnt quite keep that burst...
Maybin has made more big plays in a handful of games than Westerman has made in two seasons. I'm tired of the argument that it is better to have a player who just solid - who makes a few plays a game that any NFL player should make, but no big plays. We had this argument on this board 5+ years ago over and over when some people were saying they preferred Thomas over Abraham because Thomas stayed healthy and played the run well. Well, how did that work out? Abraham makes more big plays in a season than Thomas made in his career. A similar argument is emerging with Maybin. He will never be an every down player, but there is no player on the Jets roster that can rush the passer like him and the play he made at the end of the game was as important as the TD pass to Holmes. Those plays win games.
I am encouraged to have two young LBs on the team like Westerman & Maybin While we're at it, Bellore (on STs) and Mauga made some plays today as well
Let's be real, I don't think anyone is saying that Maybin is our best LB on this team. However, he is the best at getting to the qb. I do not know how anyone can debate this. Sure he gets washed out of plays, noone is saying he doesn't. but Maybin seems to get pressure on the QB when hes in the game quite frequently. not only does he get to the QB, but half of his sacks have caused fumbles. Again, to be clear before someone with a lack of reading comprehension responds. Maybin is not our best LB, period. He is however, our best LB attacking the QB on passing downs.
Yes Maybin does get run out of plays. Just because it isnt 4 out of every 5 times like it was three weeks ago doesnt mean it isnt still happening far to frequently. Yes you are right, just because a pass rusher gets pushed passed the QB doesn't mean it won't have an effect. that effect is forcing the QB to climb the pocket, which is a great plan, if you are getting any pressure from the middle. The Jets simply don't do that, so it might actually be a negative. But regardless, i'm talking about plays Maybin is completely washed out where the QB barely realizes a guy is behind him he's so far away. Yes 2 of maybin's last 3 were not true coverage sacks. Good for Maybin. Like I said he is getting better, and thats huge. We need him to keep improving. But that still doesnt make him the better pass rusher. Congratulations, you havent ever seen a double team on westerman. How much have you actually been watching just westerman to see if he was even on the field, much less double/single teamed? Cause I guarantee you, they are there. "Good against the run" is exactly the opposite of what im talking about. I stated the fact that Westerman is that much better against the run is an indictment of just how bad Maybin is against the run. In other words, I should be able to throw on the pads and do more or less the same against the run as Maybin. Just because Westerman plays the run better doesnt mean he plays better than a backup on the Syracuse Orangemen. Oh no O coordinator is scared of Westerman. None. But he is the best pass rusher we have right now, for all the reasons I have stated. That said, Maybin is coming on like a freight train. His hustle is winning over the defense, his raw speed and never say die motor is great. Maybin is getting better and that is far better than we could have ever hoped for. Maybin has infinitely more potential, just based off pure athletic ability, than Westerman. There is a reason he was a top 15 pick, its starting to show here in NY. We can only hope he comes close to reaching that potential. If he does, he will be that guy you (and everybody else) hope he can be. The first real pass rusher we have had since J-Abe got sand in his vag, causing us to ship him to Atlanta.
I agree. Does Westerman have better technique and not get run out of plays as often? Sure, but he doesn't have the raw speed of Maybin, nor his endless motor. Westerman has more moves, and he's the better every down linebacker. But if the situation is purely "It's 3rd down. They're gonna throw. I need someone to get in the backfield and make a play on the quarterback," then give me Maybin. Guy has made a bunch of plays for us in a short period of time, he's a good role player. We still need a pass rusher who is good enough to play every down for us and replace Pace or Thomas.
Good Mention on those two guys, they may make a good impact in the future for the Jets..... One thing I would like to bring up as far as Maybin progress. The Bills had him for two years and he did not grow, we have had him for about half a season and he has grown leaps and bounds. There is no reason to think otherwise, that with and offseason and OTA's and continued work with this coaching staff that this young man could end up scary good... You also have to think that because the Jets believe in him and the monies that the Bills still must pay him, he will be happy to work out a longer term deal the Jets could afford. You must keep in mind, he was on the street for 3 weeks and no other team picked him up either. It has always been the Jets who wanted him. I am sure when we let him go that final time, Rex told him, "if you don't get picked up, stay ready, we are going to bring you back".... I think Maybin will return that loyality...-
just goes to show u how much the league covets speed - even without much else in ur toolbox - as long as u can be coached and carry that coaching to the playing field. if ur 6-3; 6-4 with speed and even a hint of athleticism, u will get a shot - college first and then the pros. when j. johnson was building the cowboys back in the late 80's/early 90's he wanted speed speed and more speed for his defense - especially the LB's. that was his key. maybin is still out of control but his contribution to this D cannot be underestimated. third down and 4th quarter sacks/fumbles are HUGE for any defense and he is right up there with the elite. i am NOT saying he is elite - just pointing out the importance of his stats.
I don't get why you'd knock Maybin for what people classify as "coverage sacks." That's exactly what Maybin was brought in here to do, essentially. The Jets were letting QBs sit in the pocket for like 8 seconds last year. You can't expect sublime coverage like that on every play. Maybin forces the QB to get rid of the ball way earlier. As for Westerman, I haven't watched him individually all that closely this year, but to my recollection, he hasn't been especially effective as a pass rusher on his own. He had a very good game yesterday in all facets, but he struggled earlier in the season. Maybin is steadily getting more consistent with hurrying the QB in some form or fashion on each snap he plays.
