A few questions about what we saw today...

This speaks to a different point, the apparent lack of confidence of Mangini in Pennington to make plays. You can criticize Mangini for that, but I think that that is what is going on.

As I said in a different thread, I don't see anything changing much until the Jets lose 2 more games. If that happens, I would like to see Clemens in as soon as possible, so that the team can see if he is the future. While I am under no illusions about the Jets being Super Bowl caliber next year, you can't wait too long in getting your QB back there, since players like Coles and Vilma aren't getting any younger, and won't necessarily stay here if given the opporunity to go elsewhere.

 

I dunno, it looks to me like Schottenheimer is scared to run plays that have had success in the pass in case they are anticipated. He alluded to something like that on 24/7 before the Pats game and it looks to me like he's trying to draw a unique plan for every game, when the successful elements are needing to be retained. Perhaps it's part of Mangini's "play to the opponent's weaknesses" strategy, but it needs reviewed.

 

teams almost ever sign a "franchise QB". Other teams just don't let them slip away. I think the Jets intend to be a lot better next year. This year is something of a mirage. They have improved and they are very well coached. But they should still be using this year to find out if they have a QB who can get them to the next level. Obviously I am talking about Clemens. I realize that starting him would probably cost the team a playoff shot. But if they do upgrade their talent next year, and start him then, aren't they writing off a year in which they have a geater investment in talent? Now, of course, maybe after half a season the Jets brain trust feels that Clemens wil not be the answer. That is a possibility too.

 

I normally try to see your point, 3rdand15, but your overreaction to this introductory segment of my post is almost as prematurely emotional as your "Shaken Faith In The New Regime" post. I prefaced the rest of my observations of this season with this statement because Jets fans everywhere are expecting way too much of Chad and this regime for now. Pennington is the best option we have at the moment because Clemens is not ready for a team the likes of the Chicago Bears, and Ramsey is just plain awful.

In other words, you missed my main point and instead choose to dissect and label "absurd" one segment of sentence. And that's okay, because you're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine, but if you look around the league right now, as far as QB's go, there aren't enough superlative QB's to make Chad Pennington look below average. My use of "adequate" was far from complimentary and instead was designed to set the tone for the rest of my post, that being, he's an interim QB (and our only option, really, at this point), so perhaps we agree on that. But I do disagree with your "last three week" assessment of Chad (and this regime), particularly in lieu of the outcome of the game in Foxboro just last week.

I'm assuming you were in the stands, as I was, and I do share your pain with this loss. But realistically, neither of us had any business going into this game with any higher expectations than the 10-point loss. The fact that we played well against them for much of the game is cause for optimism, IMO. In fact, going into the 2nd half, I felt confident we could take the game from them. Were it not for Brian Urlacher's cunning ability to read Chad's intentions at such a critical time, coupled with Coleman slipping and falling down, as well as what will surely become THE infamous decision to do the ridiculous on-sides kick, we would have come up with a win (okay... throw in not bringing Nugent on the field for a try at the 50 and 52-yarders).

 

I don't think it's about being too emotional, I just read post after post last night telling me that Chad was our best option at QB, with the defense of these statements talking about everything except you know, Chad's actual ability to play QB. I understand the point you and others are trying to make about Chad but I simply can't agree with it after the way he played yesterday.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but what do you suggest then? Ramsey is totally out of the question. I watched Ramsey at TC this summer and that was enough for me. If we bench Chad and insert Ramsey, we'll all need to wear yellow rubber rain slickers to the games to avoid being covered in vomit from the rows behind us. The man is just plain awful.

Bringing in Clemens is the only remaining option. But (a) I'm not sure he's ready, (b) I'm particularly not sure he could do much better than Penny can do at this point (and perhaps worse), (c) I think benching Chad would have a very destabilizing, demoralizing effect on our offense, not to mention a stiffing effect on the development and confidence levels of our younger players still getting the "NFL feel," and (d) I'm not ready to condemn Pennington to the point of benching yet, particularly after the win in Foxboro last weekend and his intangible and miraculous come-back from back-to-back surgery. The offense is pulling for this guy for all these reasons.

But again, not to lose sight of the fact that he's nothing more than an interim QB for us at this point. I looked at him this way from the very beginning of the season, and although I'm tremendously impressed with his physical come-back, I'm equally convinced he'll never take us to the Promised Land. He simply lacks the deep threat. A great emotional leader, a hard worker, an intelligent guy, a crafty illusionist, but without a deep ball most teams rarely have to worry about getting burned.

 

I'm all for Clemens. Frankly with the boneheaded decisions to throw Pennington has been making lately I don't see how he could be any worse. We know that he can make throws that Pennington can't even dream of making.

I'm not in the locker room so I'm not going to speak on the effect a Chad benching would have on them, other then to say I find it unlikely that such an action would result in general insurrection from the players. Sure, Coles might run his mouth initially but after a few well thrown balls from Clemens he would quiet down.

 

I'm not unwilling to concede that it might come to this, particularly as we head down the final stretch and play below-500 teams which, according to many over-confident Jets fans, we're supposed to beat handily.

If we start losing these supposedly easy victories and the blame is mostly Penny's, then perhaps at 5-7 or so, Mangini has to insert Clemens and see what we've got in him. That would give us 4 games, win or lose, to get a good look for next year.

 

I agree with that whole heartedly. If Pennington falters against Houston, that might be the game where a change is needed. And that'd give Clemens, like you said, time to play and get a good look at him.

 

I think you make some fair points but I just had to point out one thing... you said if not for urlachers cunning ability to read chad.....hahaha dude Chad stared downt the receiver from the second he got the ball....missing a wide open coles on the other side......it didnt take any cunning ability to pick that pass off...he telegraphed it

 

Hi Jonnyd,

Yeah, Panny telegraphed it and he did stare the reciver down, but in all fairness, Coles wasn't "wide open" until just about the time that Penny committed. Coles was covered until he ran around to his left and came back toward the goal line... watch the tape. Then, afterwards, Coles even approached Penny, waving his arms and presumably telling Penny he was open, but the truth is, Coles wasn't open until later (not that Penny saw it anyway).

Not making excuses for the play though, Penny blew it by telegraphing, no question. Still, 47 career TD's in the red zone with no INTs... and now he has 2 and we're ready to tar and feather the guy?

 

But it's not just about a RZ pass(or passes). Great example is a 3rd down pass on the Jets 2nd drive yesterday. It was 3rd and 2 and they were out near midfield. Cotchery has his man beaten by a full step and open field in front of him. Pennington throws a rainbow out to the left and Cotchery has to slow up and reach back to try to catch the ball and/or knock it away from the defender. This is on a short to mid range pass.

There was a similar play on the Jets first drive of the 2nd half. It was a longer pass but equally underthrown when Cotchery had a step on his man. This time he was able to reach back and make a twisting catch but was brought down immediately. There was 1 DB between him and the EZ, if he's hit in stride maybe he makes a move and takes it in.

What's sad is that I haven't even mentioned Penningtons more egregious incompletions where the ball simply sailed past wide open WRs. Simply put the guy didn't look like he belonged in the NFL yesterday against yes, a very good defense, but one that wasn't putting much(any?) pressure on him. And he wasn't able to make the throws.

 

I was there as well and I'm not going to deny everything you say above about the performance yesterday. In fact, there was an obvious pass behind Baker (I think) which would have necessitated him being an absolute contortionist to catch... totally unnecessary because the defender had no chance if the ball had been placed on his numbers. So yes, there was a lot of eradic stuff going on... really frustrating because we did have an excellent chance of beating the Bears.

But this is all part and parcel of Penny's game too. I've long held that the opening game of the 2005 season, in which Penny had the "deer in the headlight" look against KC, was not the only time I've noticed this. It's almost like he overthinks the defense sometimes. Many times he looks downright scared... shaken is the word. I've always felt that he lets that stuff get in his head too much, which explains the erratic passes even in the short to mid-range. There's no excuse for an innacurate 5-yard pass or to make the receiver back up or reach wildly.

I don't know. All I can say is I have enough confidence in Mangini and Schottenheimer to tell you this is not going unnoticed. In terms of where we go next year, the job will be wide open, no question. It was this year and it will be come August.

I'm actually finding you doing a good job of convincing me, 3rdand15. We've got some supposedly "easy" games coming up now. If this continues, we might be seeing a glimpse of Clemens before long.