2014-2015 New York Knicks Thread

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by displacedfan, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    27,605
    Likes Received:
    28,802
    Mudaiy can't shoot though. I wanted Winslow but I didn't mind them passing on Mudaiy
     
  2. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    27,605
    Likes Received:
    28,802
    that's true I suppose. I hope you and Wojo are right
     
  3. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    22,232
    Likes Received:
    12,245
    They said the same thing about Derrick Rose and John Wall, it only took them like 2 seasons to get their jumpshot up to par. He doesn't have a broken jumpshot, he needs repetitions.

    The guy can get to the basket at will.

    Kristaps just seems like another Bargnani to me [guy w/ massive potential but ultimately soft for the NBA; essentially a project], I hope for you the kid pans out. Won't be fun watching Winslow tear it up in Miami.

    As an Orlando Magic fan, Mario can fucking shot the rock man, he's not a project. Thank God we didn't get Kristaps, I really wanted Winslow for the Magic. Plus, you can't sleep on those Croatian basketball players - those dudes can ball.
     
  4. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    11,673
    Likes Received:
    5,898
    The fact that great guards exist in the league doesn't equate to the assertion the guards value is overwhelmingly greater to a teams success.

    Chris Paul, Tony Parker have great players at other positions with then. You try to downplay Durante but his good were the Thunder when Westbrook was on his own. Your argument is not only easily disputed but you are contradicting yourself with your own examples.
     
  5. Poeman

    Poeman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    14,534
    Likes Received:
    8,342
    Dont know man, but this is what every BSPN guy, First Take and others are saying on the worldwide shit provider.

    How is Kristaps soft? He is 19 but his game is so incredible...He wants to be the euro Anthony Davis. I am positive given some time this guy will find his platform in the NBA and will shine.

    I knew Channing Frye, Jordan Hill, Frederic Weis were all going to be bad picks for us. We had no shot there and everyone is obviously afraid that we took our next Weis.

    Justise Winslow is not going be some all-star. I just dont believe in him like the people do.

    Hezonja is a good player, but what makes him so much more greater then Kristaps? Weight?
     
    BrowningNagle likes this.
  6. Attackett

    Attackett Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    12,121
    Likes Received:
    5,512
    If we all agree it is a shooting league, which I certainly do I don't know how anyone can criticize the Knicks selecting one of the best shooter in the draft while passing on a PG that can't shoot and a defensive specialist.
     
  7. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    22,232
    Likes Received:
    12,245
    The value of the G, is at it's highest [ever in league history]. Why do you think the Lakers took Russell over Okafor? We are now in an era where having great guards equals team success. Steve Nash and the Suns wrote the blueprint; now teams are benefiting because of it.

    Chris Paul carried the Clippers past the Spurs, Clippers have one other great player in Blake Griffin, but it was CP3 in that 4th QTR that willed his team to the next round. Tony Parker if healthy, more than likely helps the Spurs advance.

    Durant is at his best when he has Westbrook to take the pressure off, when they are together they went to the finals. W/out Westbrook - the Thunder got bounced out of the first round [maybe it was 2nd].
     
  8. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    27,605
    Likes Received:
    28,802
    I gave you a 'like' just for this awesome first line haha
     
    Poeman likes this.
  9. Poeman

    Poeman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    14,534
    Likes Received:
    8,342
    How about that trade of Hardaway for Grant?

    Both with fathers who were pro's...Grant was big time for Notre Dame
     
    matt robinson 17 likes this.
  10. Poeman

    Poeman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    14,534
    Likes Received:
    8,342
  11. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    27,605
    Likes Received:
    28,802
  12. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    22,232
    Likes Received:
    12,245
    Honestly, it's wrong, but I am stereotyping Kristaps. The soft European big man label. I hope he proves me wrong because the Knicks deserve better. I just remember how awesome Barginai was prior to the draft according to many.

    Orlando drafted for need - Mario apparently is the best shooter in the entire draft. Orlando's been scouting him for sometime now, I hope he contributes - but I don't see him as a star, just a really good role player. I wanted Winslow.
     
    Poeman likes this.
  13. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    11,673
    Likes Received:
    5,898
    Without Durant, Westbrook and the Thunder missed the playoffs despite Westbrook being arguably the very best player in the league. You kind of have to dismiss that to continue your position, and dismissing facts inherently weakens your argument and the intention of the arguer.

    All you are showing is that scoring amongst guards had become the focus in the league and obviously if more teams play to that model you will have more teams succeeding because of it. That doesn't equate to the fact that if you have a big man who can shoot just as well as a guard he can have the same impact.

    Dirk Nowitzki is the exception not because his impact on his team at the position is the exception but because his skill set is the exception. There are simply more guards who have a greater impact on the game than there are Dirk type players. That doesn't mean you pass on a potential Nowitzki type player for a guard who maybe doesn't have as high of potential just because he is a guard.

    That's the equivalent of arguing that you draft a C+ QB instead of an A+ LB because it is a QB driven league.
     
  14. GordonGecko

    GordonGecko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes Received:
    2,279
    Carmelo feels ‘betrayed’ by Jackson after Porzingis pick

    Carmelo Anthony feels “completely hoodwinked and betrayed by Phil Jackson’’ after the Knicks traded Tim Hardaway Jr. and selected European project Kristaps Porzingis with the fourth pick of the draft, according to a radio report by ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith.
    The report cited sources close to Anthony, who is currently in Las Vegas for his wife La La’s birthday.

    “All they said was he’s furious, he’s livid, he feels completely hoodwinked and betrayed by Phil Jackson,’’ Smith said. “He feels like he was lied to and sold a bill of goods. He’s willing to concede he wanted his money, but he didn’t know it would be like this and this bad. He can’t believe the second season for Phil Jackson he has to look forward to being worse than last season was.”
    When asked Friday about Anthony’s reaction to the Porzingis pick, Jackson noted Anthony attended the Latvian’s abbreviated workout Monday. He said he texted Anthony about the pick, but didn’t reveal anything more.
    The question is whether selecting Porzingis jibes with Anthony’s advancing age (31) and limited window as the foundation of a title contender.

    “Carmelo’s always on my mind. He’s our favorite son,” Jackson said. “But the second most important thing is what we do for this franchise. That has to be a consideration. I let Melo know that when we made this choice. We anticipate it’s going to be rough, whether we have a 19-year-old KP or 19-year-old whoever.”

    Anthony’s frustration with the Jackson regime would be nothing new. The Post reported in December he was so depressed about the team’s losing record, he would consider waiving his no-trade clause if the Zen Master came up with a deal.
    After the season, Anthony admitted he had “second-guessed’’ his decision to resign with the Knicks as a free agent before Jackson put him at ease during a January dinner in London.

    http://nypost.com/2015/06/26/carmelo-feels-betrayed-by-jackson-after-porzingis-pick/
     
  15. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    22,232
    Likes Received:
    12,245
    Without Westbrook, Durant didn't experience much success either [first round exit]. Durant was an MVP w/ Russell Westbrook. I don't think this weakens my argument at all. Westbrook ain't winning shit w/out Durant and Durant ain't winning shit w/out Westbrook.

    It's not just scoring, it's getting the team in position to make plays. Guards ARE the focus of the league. Look at the lack of low-post scorers in this league, it's all an all-time low; you really going to tell me this isn't a G driven league? The true CENTER is gone from today's league. This league was built on low-post scorers; the Wilt Chamberlains; Bill Russells; Kareems; Hakeems; Shaq. This league has changed to a guard dominated league. All you need is a big man that can play some defense, rebound and get an occasional bucket from the pick n roll. The rules give guards the freedom to do almost anything they want.

    Big men don't nearly have the same impact as in the past. Durant to me, is a classic SF; I don't consider him a BIG man. We won't see a Nowitzki like player for another 20 years at least. We've seen so many players come into this league w/ that comparison only to fall extremely short.

    The fact that the Lakers took Russell over Okafor tells you that it's a guard driven league. Okafor is the best low post scorer in that draft. In regards to the bold, that solidifies my statement even more than it's a G driven league. In regards to your football analogy, it's more-so of a comparison of drafting a Spread QB v drafting a pass-rusher that you know can contribute and run your system. W/ a Spread QB, you really don't know what you will get.

    if there were better low post scorers coming into the league, you would be right but that is not the case. These big men aren't asked to do the same thing as in the past.
     
  16. hastygreen

    hastygreen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    Unless they absolutely manage to kill FA, they need to find Carmelo a new home.
     
    Burnz likes this.
  17. BigSnacks54

    BigSnacks54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,762
    Likes Received:
    596
    I'm not a Knicks fan, but Porzingis is a great prospect. It doesn't necessarily mean he'll "pan out", but he can obviously shoot extremely well, he's fairly athletic and has shown that he can protect the rim and defend Pick and Rolls in spurts. I think he needs to imporve his mobility and quickly grasp team concepts, such as the Triangle and overall Pick and Roll coverage in the league. He seems to struggle with help defense, but regardless most Knick fans hate this pick because they've never watched him or heard of him

    He's not going to contribute in year one, but what rookie does? The Knicks are going to be terrible next season and for the foreseeable future; why not pick the guy with the highest upside? New York wasn't the best spot for him, because of the fans and overall incompetence of management from top to bottom, but he can still succeed.
     
  18. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    1,053
    I think this kid is going to be a good player. But not with Carmelo. Because the kid is into a team game not a me game like Melo. If he's willing to agree to a deal let him go. Btw didn't Melo have problems with Hardaway last season?
     
  19. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    11,673
    Likes Received:
    5,898
    Your argument that the fact that Durant won less without Westbrook than with him was indication that guard play is more important than any other position. But the Thunder won even less when missing their small forward than missing their PG, so clearly for the Thunder Durant is more important than Westbrook. That clearly disputes your assertion that guards are more valuable than the other positions.

    Now you are arguing they are equally valuable? That wasn't your initial position. C'mon!!!

    That's always been the role of guards. That certainly doesn't indicate a difference in the game today versus yesterday that minimizes the value of other positions.

    Irrelevant. We are talking about the guy the Knicks drafted, who isn't a low post center. We are talking about a guy who can shoot the lights out like a guard supposedly.

    Rules have made guards more effective, but that doesn't mean that only guards can dictate a game. That was your position shrouded in the guard driven league classification. That's the flaw in you assessment.

    This is such a meaningless comment . We won't see another Nowitzki type player for. 20 years? Why? What's going to happen in the period before that which will prevent another kid from developing into that type of player? And what's going to happen in 20 years that changes that. You have to back up such an assertion if you are going to make it.

    Or perhaps because the Lakers drafted a forward last year in the top 10 they thought it a smarter decision to draft a guard to compliment him rather than another down low player.

    How about the fact that two if the first three players drafted are big men. It's such a guard driven league that the top player taken was a big man and after Russell so were the next two.

    Why didn't the Lakers draft a guard last year instead of Randle?

    You are ignoring so much facts to continue this position. It's not reality.
     
  20. Burnz

    Burnz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,493
    Likes Received:
    567
    I hope we find someone for Melo to agree to be traded too. This guy has no chance to win anything here and needs a new home like we need new players. Can't stand we resigned Melo to this day
     
    JetBlue likes this.

Share This Page