Puig now has more homers than Parra this season. And he has played outstanding defense, making play after play.
Homer Bailey no hit the Giants. I think he also threw the last no hitter recorded before today (last year he had one). Price with a good return from the DL. 7 IP, 3 H, 10K
That's first 23. Puig has now played 32. You could bring up Kevin Maas as well. The difference is, those guys did it in the second half. If they did it in the first half, they probably should've been in the ASG as well. I never said Puig will be an all-time great player. Maybe he's a flash in the pan who sucks at baseball. But he's been outstanding and deserves to be in the all star game. So people can bring up a dozen guys who got off to very hot starts and didn't turn out to be phenomenal players in the long term, but so what? If an average player has a great first half, he should be an All Star.
I agree. But Puig hasn't had a great first half. He's had a great second quarter, and that shouldn't be enough.
In that quarter he's contributed more to his team than most of his competition has in the full half. When you're talking about putting in Hunter Pence and his .314 OBP and subpar defense...
You asked for 9 guys (which was too many to begin with, but I played along), and Pence is top 10 in HR, SB, and 2B among NL outfielders. And I never said that any of the guys I mentioned had better numbers than Puig, just that they have produced so far at levels that often get guys into All Star games, and have done so all season.
Puig shouldn't be in the All star game he only has 135 PA. For all the people arguing Puig should be in the All-Star game, do you also think Jose Iglesias should be? he's played more games and is probably one of if not the best defensive SS/3B in baseball, he has a .935 OPS and a 157 OPS+ while playing a position where offense is harder to find.
Pence has less WAR than Puig. Puig has contributed more to his team than Pence has to his. Puig is significantly better both defensively and offensively. The average OBP this season is .317. Pence plays a corner OF position, where you'd expect better offense from, and he's below the MLB average (which includes various catchers and middle infielders who can't hit). That's All Star quality? Oh by the way, the same ESPN crew this week completely flipped the script. They now all agree Puig should be in the All Star Game. :lol: The same guys who said Monday night he shouldn't be, now all agree he should be. "You asked for 9 guys (which was too many to begin with, but I played along)" That's how many it looked like the NL had last year, from a quick count. This year it's going to be 7 or 8 (depending on the final vote).
I agree. That isn't what I'm arguing, yet you continue to insist that it is. A far more complete measure of a hitter is OPS, and Pence is 18% above average in that category in about 3 times as many appearances. Again, I'm not saying he's better than Puig. I'm just saying that the numbers he's put up aren't outside the realm of what could get a guy to the All Star game. And your fixation on my inclusion of Pence ignores that he was only added to my list because you asked for nine. I would take any of the other guys I mentioned over him (except maybe Parra who is about even). Again, the point isn't that any of those guys have been better than Puig since he's been in the Majors, just that they have relatively typical All Star numbers, and no one who has 100 ABs should make it until guys who have played all year with typical All Star numbers have all been picked.
I'm a huge Red Sox fan, and I don't think Iglasias should make it either. He's been outstanding, but he hasn't played enough. Nava got screwed though.
Again, a far more complete measure of a player's contribution to his team is WAR. Puig's WAR is clearly better better than Pence's in a lot less games, yet you say you would take Pence over him. I asked for 9 based on last season's roster. What do you not get? Pence does not have typical All Star numbers. How many OFs have made the all star team in the past 15 years while recording an OBP below the league average? Has to be a very short list. According to ESPN, 30 NL OFs qualify for the batting title. Pence is 24th in OBP and 17th in OPS. A .311 OBP. The MLB average is .317.
WAR is nearly useless in that small a sample size because it is a combination of many other categories all of which can be highly inaccurate in small samples (particularly defense). Also not sure which WAR you are using but Pence has an fWAR of 2.3 to Puig's 2.0, Parra has an fWAR of 2.7 (mostly because he is a far far superior fielder and small samples make that seem more important). Puig's bWAR is 2.4, Pence is at 2.0, Parra is at 3.6. Of course this is all small sample size stuff, and the stats show Puig is due for a massive regression ( His walk and strikeout rates are hideous, his BABIP is nearly .500 and he has subpar range in LF which suggests he is due for a decrease in his UZR and accordingly WAR) Edit- The moral of the story, neither Puig nor Pence should be All-Stars over Gerrardo Parra, but one likely will be because defense is underrated and narrative rules all in baseball (hence Jeter's ridiculous Gold Gloves, Cabrerra over Trout for MVP, Pedro Martinez having possibly the greatest single season ever by a pitcher and not winning MVP)
so bWAR is what you were using, that was my point, different calculations of WAR can vary greatly in small samples. Yeah LF was a typo,the point was his range sucks, and sucked in the minors so it likely isn't just the sample size.
yes bWAR is the calculation used by baseball reference, fWAR is the calculation used by fangraphs, they use slightly different stats and each has some advantages over the other http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6063 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/glossary/#winvalues fWAR is by many considered more accurate with regards to fielding as it uses UZR rather than Total Zone, others prefer bWAR, most use both. Whichever you use in a sample as small as half a season it tends to be less than enlightening considering the very small sample size and inaccuracy of particularly the defensive metrics in a sample that small.
