It's funny how easily the combine changes fans love affairs, Upshaw was it , now its Ingram. People need to watch some tape and learn from real scouts instead of bleacher report and falling in love with combine numbers.
Based on what I've seen from McClellin, I think he will be a serviceable pro at the very least. IMO the biggest sleeper pick is Irvin, who has a chance to be special. Impressive combine numbers aside, Irvin always looked like a man among boys playing in the Big East (cue the 'big east sucks' rants).. He had 14 sacks in 11 games in 2010 (3 vs Maryland, 2 vs NC State, Lousville, Rutgers & UConn).. although last year he took a bit of a step back.
I didn't think Upshaw looked that good on tape, in fact, to me he looked average and I don't want to pick someone who is average with the 16th pick.
"Better" is a tough word. I think most everyone would agree that Ingram looks more explosive and athletic on tape...the type of guy that can really wreak havoc in the NFL if he keeps moving forward. The issue is that Upshaw does things well and he's a proven commodity in the position we would play him in. You can speculate all you want about Ingram's ability to make it in the 3-4 OLB. You might even be right in assuming that he probably will transition well. Or if he can't that maybe he can come in as DE in our 3-4 and make an impact that way to salvage the pick if he doesn't pan out at OLB. The fact is we don't KNOW any of these things to be true and that is a big problem when you're trying to make blanketed statements about which guy is going to be better for our team. I want to like Ingram better for us but I'm not sure how confident I am that's the right opinion to have at this moment. Obviously the better he looks in combines and the worse Upshaw looks the easier it gets to prefer Ingram, but I feel like he's going to be a bigger bust risk for us no matter how you slice it. Upshaw might not be a rabid animal attacking the QB from the edge for us, but he will hold his responsibilities. He'll generate a good amount of pressure often enough to make people account for him, and he'll open up a lot of opportunities for Maybin to clean up on the other side. He will stop the run. It might not be the sexiest, but with the 16th pick in the NFL draft I'd say that's bringing a lot to the table for our ball club. With Ingram's stock going higher and higher...that might be just fine for us and we won't have to worry about bust potential as much as Ingram...probably won't have to worry about 15 sacks either, c'est la vie.
We dont know if Upshaw can transition to the NFL as an OLB either. Some are saying he might be better suited for 4-3 DE because his hips are too stiff... Not saying that I agree, but theres always a question mark. I think Upshaw will provide the ability to set the edge in the run game and provide a decent pass rush. I do. But I dont think he will help in coverage because off his stiffness and I dont really see the upside you look for in a passrusher when talking about the 16th overall pick. Another question that arises, was Upshaw benefited by the system he played in/the players around him and will his production translate to the NFL level? You can pick out question marks about Ingram, but so can I about Upshaw. When you look at Ingram, you see a baller. You see an athletic, BIG man who can move extremely well on his feet (played PG in h.s.). You see a versatile player that can line up in practically any position Rex wants him to. He has the upside you look for in a passrusher and the athleticism for an OLB prospect... I like Upshaw. But I like Ingram’s potential more. Upshaw should be a solid pro who may have more potential as an ILB. And if we are talking about Alabama LB’s though, I might rather Hightower.
Upshaw has played 3-4 OLB most if not all of his career at Bama. I think putting him at 4-3 End would be a huge mistake. This whole thing about him dropping is complete over reaction from his combine. This reminds me of Woodley back in 2007, he was touted as a lock in the first, had a bad combine, and was called slow, a run stuffer at best, and probably suited to only play RDE in a 4-3. He got drafted in the second because of lost hype and the rest is history. Don't catch the combine bug and sleep on Upshaw. There's a big difference between workouts and playing football. Look at the OLB/DE types taken over him because of this, not exactly impressive.
Yes this is spot on. Of course you can nitpick bust potential and pauses for concern and all of that but the fact is that Upshaw has proven he can play the position his whole life in the top program in the country. Ingram has never proven it on the field. You can say whatever you want but there are more question marks on Ingram for OUR team than Upshaw. I'd probably love to gamble on Ingram, but I know it is more of a gamble.
I agree that putting him at 4-3 end is a bad decision, I was just pointing other opinions that I’ve heard/read on him and that there are question marks that go along with him too. I think his best position is an OLB in a 3-4... But he also might do well inside in a 3-4. Once again, I would be completely happy with Upshaw at 16. I think he would be an upgrade from what is already on the team. But I just like Ingram (his athleticism, playmaking ability and versatility) more at this moment. I went from Upshaw to Ingram back to Upshaw and now at Ingram again... Things change obviously.
The combine can do that to ya . It's a great tool to evaluate players but many players stock drop just because a silly 40 time or a sub par workout. It happens every year, I still cant understand how scouts fall into the trap over and over. I'm not saying a bad workout doesn't mean anything because in many cases it does but what's most important is on the field play and Upshaw has been a standout in the top defense in college football for years.
The combine alone can do that to some. But what it should really do is just make you go back and look at film on a player. For me, it answered the fact that Ingram does have the athleticism that I saw on film and that Upshaw can show up come game day rather than post great numbers at a track meet. The combine didnt solely shape my opinion on them, because I had once liked Ingram more than Upshaw, and that was previous to the combine. The many people who are coming out saying Poe is going to be the next Ngata or that Stephen Hill is a top 3 WR in the class are those who fall into the trap. If you look at Poe’s actual play and stats, they are not that impressive, especially considering he played in CUSA. A player who did not dominate in that conference and only got 33 total tackles and a sack should not be even considered in the top 10. Point is, I am not basing my slight preference of Ingram over Upshaw solely off of the combine.
I just think it's important to keep in mind that it is still only slight preferences that we're dealing with as the average fan if not the scouting department as well. I think the temptation is there to just run away with Ingram and get dead set on him to the point of looking elsewhere if he's gone and Upshaw is available. And I don't think that's the right way to be looking at it. They're both bordering elite (for the draft) talent in my mind.
Again people, STOP using the Saban 3-4 as a reason why Upshaw is better. His system has produced NO ONE of note in the front 7 of a 3-4 scheme, and so to use that as a plus for Upshaw is nonsense. If we get to 16 and DeCastro, Ingram, Richardson, and Keuchly are gone, I'd trade down. And yes, I'd prefer Hightower to Upshaw.
You need to take a closer look, then. Rolando McClain Brandon Deaderick Terrence Cody Marcel Dareus That's just since 2009 from Bama, not counting his LSU guys, or the guys like Hightower and Upshaw coming out this year *facepalm*
I sure hope his (Upshaw) stock falls - so when Jets trade down for like #18 and a low 2nd round pick, I hope to see Jets still pick him up. If the cards play out right, Jets might end up with Bruce Irvin (or whoever that is deemed good enough to play OLB for the Jets) too in 2nd round with the low 2nd the acquire.
To be honest Cody hasnt done mush of anything, Dareus has only played one season and McClain hasnt been "special". So in all reality Saban hasnt produced a wealth of great defensive players.
