Again, every scenario I've tossed out, was legitimatly offered or discussed by your very own gm. I'm not throwing shit around, like some people. And it's not Buchholz for Halladay, it is a rediculous package of MLB ready(or close to) players that the Jays are idiots for not taking.
Yes, it's clearly my misinterpretation. And it's not like I have any precedent of your dickish posting style. Yup, it's just me. Yes, my pretty little head is so worried. And I've never watched Granderson play in my life. Yes, that's why I'm not sold on this trade. That's the last I'll respond about this. I'm not clogging up this thread with yet another stupid argument with you.
I'm aware of what I wrote, thanks. But yeah, I was right... you're definitely taking my tone the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be a dick about it. It was completely lighthearted. *shrugs* Do what you gotta do, man. There was no malice on my end. And I didn't mean to imply that you've never watched Granderson play. I was just saying that I think you'll change your opinion of his talent when you get to see him play every day. His stats may have declined the past two years, but his skills haven't (possible exception being his range, depending on who you listen to) -- his decline might be real, or it might just be explained by variance. It's not such a precipitous decline that you say it's gotta be age or something else. We're talking about a 28 year old.
Fair enough then. Anyway, I'm not doubting the talent of Granderson. Had this trade been AJax and Kennedy, or Kennedy and Coke, or even maybe AJax and Coke, I'd have no problem with it. But it was Coke, Kennedy, and Jackson. That's my problem. The whole package, when not looking at the individual pieces. We're better today than we have been since Bernie Williams was young in centerfield today. It's hard to complain about that. Except when I look at what it cost us.
I hear you, but you gotta give up talent to get talent. And unproven, very young talent isn't as valuable as proven young talent. You can't expect it to be a steal every time. This strikes me as a fair trade, talent-wise. I'm a little wary of it, but we'll see. I guess I'm just most baffled about Coke. You're okay if it's Jackson and Kennedy, but throwing in Coke upsets you? I can't see what part of Coke - aside from a couple of memorable outings in an otherwise very mediocre season - makes you lament his loss. I mean, yeah, he was okay, I guess. He did very well in 2008 in limited action, but he gave up HRs like nobody's business in 2009. Of all the players in that trade, Coke is by far the most replaceable. Like, instantly replaceable. Like, close your eyes and randomly pick someone from AAA replaceable. And I don't see the Yanks having that hard of a time replacing Jackson or Kennedy, either. Honestly, they just replaced Jackson... with Granderson. ETA: And I guess I should add that I'm not trying to argue with you here. I'm seriously curious what it is about Coke that makes him so important to you. Because I'm not seeing it, and neither are a few other people here. Maybe you could explain it to use in a way we could understand.
I don't know how to explain my position better really. It's not "just" Coke, or "just" Jackson, or "just" Kennedy. It's all of them together. Jackson projects to be like Granderson, so the trade is even if you ignore proven vs. unproven. Which is why I'm okay giving one other player in this trade. Obviously you don't get established talent straight-up for "projected" equal talent. I'm not ridiculous. My big thing with Coke is what it does to Marte. That is, makes him automatically the lefty specialist, which we both agree he should not be. On top of that, I feel he was better than people are giving him credit for. He wasn't lights out, but he was pretty good, and you don't just pluck "pretty good" lefties off trees. If I didn't know Girardi was a steadfast "situations" guy, I wouldn't worry about losing Coke. But he is. That puts Marte in a position I didn't want him in. -------------- Just saw a tweet from ESPN that the Yankees are working with Damon to hammer out a deal. I like the idea of bringing Damon back as a DH. I'd rather put Melky in left though. I'm down for a Cabrera/Granderson/Swisher outfield. Defensively, that's the best Yankees OF since the 90s.
Right. You don't ignore the proven vs. unproven part of it. But this move doesn't happen in a vacuum. I can almost guarantee you that there will be a replacement for Coke in the Yankee pen next year, and I'd bet almost anything that he'll be able to perform on a level that is at least very similar to Coke (hopefully better). This is why it doesn't make sense to me. I agree with your concerns. I just don't see any way those concerns go unaddressed.
Alio, the proven v. unproven part is the WHOLE reason for teh trade. Look at it this way. Coke and Kennedy converts for us unproven into proven. Make sense?
Yeah I get it. I just think it was too much in relation to the return. That's all. As for the backup plan, someone at work told me that they heard Dunn is the answer to who will fill in Coke's spot. I admit I know practically zilch about Dunn though. Again, if it works out where Granderson plays closer to '07, and someone takes up Coke's spot well, Cashman is a genius. Obviously I'm hoping for that.
Actually, from what I read (and if I understood it correctly), Dunn was originally requested to be in the Det/Ari trade along w/ Kennedy/Jackson/Coke. The Yankees leaving him out was a bit of a sticking point, and Detroit eventually acquiesced.
i want melky in right and swisher in left. and nady off the bench to replace granderson in the lineup against a lefty SP.
Leftfield in Yankee Stadium is probably one of the largest in baseball. You typically want your rightfielder to have a better arm which would make sense however for Yankee Stadium you need the guy with better range and that's Cabrera. In a pinch sure, but there is no way Swisher could handle playing leftfield full time.
He's a lefty like Coke. Throws harder. Gives up fewer hits, but walks more guys. Strikes out more guys, too.
I'm not sure if Dunn is big league ready (he walks a lot of guys) but he's going to be given every opportunity to win a job out of spring training. He seems to be really highly regarded within the organization. In any case, if you have a chance to bring in a starting CF, you don't let Phil Coke of all people stop you from pulling the trigger. Ivan Nova is another guy to keep an eye on, speaking of pitchers who the Yanks really seem to like.
Nova's been solely a starter, though, no? Dunn was out of the pen last year. And yeah, he does walk a lot of guys. The bigger question is whether his K rate translates to the majors. If it does, he can suffer the walks. If it was more a factor of less selective minor league hitters, he's in trouble. But either way, I agree... even if Dunn was absolute shit, you don't let a trade for a key position player get hung up over a middle reliever.
I honestly think Dunn is just going to frustrate a lot of Yankee fans. Yes, Coke gives up a a lot of homeruns, but there were certain players during the year that he made his bitch- Adam Lind, Overbay, JD - that sometimes you thought he was got damned unstoppable. Dunn, on the other hand, is a walk machine. His BB/9 has trended upwards at every stop he's had in the minors and I put him in the same league as Whelan- hard throwers who will flame out in the higher leagues because of their lack of control. After Coke, I don't think our minor league system has anyone on the 40 man that's a big league ready lefty reliever. Wilkins De La Rosa is it after Dunn, but he has the same control problems too.
