1st off I don't want to hear the guy pitched well during the steroids era as a reason a guy gets into the HOF. We don't even know who or how many guys were juicing. It's a guess and should not under any circumstance use that as a prerequisite. I do however feel that pitching in the AL East his entire career and doing what he did is quite the accomplishment. 2nd While I like Moose as he was always a classy guy and won with dignity. I hate the Yanks but I always rooted for Moose the same way I'll always root for Wang but he was never an elite pitcher. He was a good pitcher and very consistent but never elite. 3rd Yankee fans take off the goggles how many times did Moose come through in a big spot? He what pitched one good game in the playoffs and that was in relief for 4 innings? If Moose pitched for the say White Sox or A's would there really be a discussion about a guy who won 20 games once and never was elite and definately never was great in the playoffs? If you want to compare stats then you can't keep out Burt Blylevan and put in Moose. There are more than a few guys who have been as good or at the same level Mussina has that aren't in. I'm sure I can find guys that have equal or better numbers than Moose that aren't in. The guy was a very good pitcher but he isn't HOF worthy. Although ESPN and Fox have already enshrined him so he'll get in. I heard Peter Gammons this morning saying he'd vote for him. To me the Hall is about the Elite and All Time Greats to me Moose isn't at the same level as Gibson, Feller, Ryan or Koufax.
Perfect...Giants bidding on Sabathia and Lowe and Burnette basically telling the Yankees to screw themselves with their 4 year offers. Couldn't be better. The only thing better will be if they swoop in and take Teixiera away from the Red Sox now.
Good post Miano. Mussina pitched right in front of our eyes, and he was never a guy that you just had to see pitch. Was not electric or seductive to watch. Not like Koufax, Gibson, Ryan or Seaver.
Honestly when I hear guys like Gammons and Kurkjen saying he should get in because he pitched in the steroids era I want to throw up. Think about it..... take Clemens out of te equation but would you really put Mussina in the same discussion as Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and Randy Johnson? I'd put Mussina in the category with guys like Dave Stewart, and Juan Guzman. Guys who were very good but not Hall worthy.
It will be hard for Mussina to get in on the first couple of ballots because of the guys Miano mentioned. Maddux, Glavine, Schilling, Smoltz, R. Johnson, Martinez, Clemens...all get in before him.
I think he may have had a shot if he didn't take this everybody is out to get me approach. I just look at Petitte and Giambi, they admitted it, moved on and people forgave and forgot. We are a forgiving society but Clemens like Bonds has made it very hard to like them. I'd really like to see Moose get in as I always liked him and rooted for him after Cito Gaston screwed him at that All Star game in Baltimore. He was a very likeable guy and has made it clear he is a family man ie; coaching youth basketball in the offseason. I heard him say he planned on retiring at seasons end but think it's very selfless to not give any indication of it during the season as not to create a distraction takes a big man. I would have loved to have seen him pitch in Queens as we could use some more class acts on our roster.
Answer: Pedro Martinez. But that's a misleading question. It's not about the length of the contract and living up to the expectations in every single season (which even Mussina didn't do). It's about what you expect to get out of it as a whole. If they get four great years from Sabathia, and two mediocre years, is that a bad contract for the Yanks? No. Even if you only get two great years, three pretty damn good years, and one "eh" year... if you're the Yanks, you can absorb that. But here's the question I want you to answer: If you're that dead-set against giving a pitcher a six-year contract, how do you reconcile that with your desire for the Yanks to trade for Santana last year, considering he commanded a six-year contract AND would have cost the Yanks prospects? Please. Answer that question.
Moose = HOFer. Dude was one of the best, and IMO the single most underrated pitcher of the past 20 years. I realize you can't put it all in one stat...but he spent his whole career pitching in a run inflated AL and he owns a career 1.19 WHIP and a 3.68 ERA (123 ERA+). He's more deserving than alot of pitchers in the HOF, but nowadays fucking...mystique and aura seem to be another piece of vague criteria for people to play with.
I explained that earlier. I only thought he might be worth the risk because he keeps himself in great shape. Really the main think I have against blubberpuss is just that. I don't think he will stay injury free for six years and didn't we just waste 50 million on Pavano? Oh, and didn't Pedro get shut down twice for the year in Boston and didn't they basically think he was totally spent at the end? That's my point. Name one other than Mussina who played up to his expectation and stayed healthy. I don't think ther are any, not one. On a more positive note, the Yankees are threatening to withdraw the offer. Them must be listening to me!!! I wish they would do it today. It's Hal making the threat too so maybe he is going to start getting a little more like Hank now that he is in charge. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3716104 On a more negative note we have the worst economy we have ever had since the great depression. If the Yankees are depending on selling 4 million tickets again this year I think they better think again. Here is an unpublished list of store closings that will take place in December alone, there will be more in January. Circuit City stores... most recent (? how many) Ann Taylor- 117 stores nationwide are to be shuttered Lane Bryant,, Fashion Bug ,and Catherine's to close 150 store nationwide Eddie Bauer to close stores 27 stores and more after January Cache will close all stores Talbots closing down all stores J. Jill closing all stores GAP closing 85 stores Footlocker closing 140 stores mor e to c lose after January Wickes Furniture closing down Levitz closing down remaining stores Bombay closing remaining stores Zales closing down 82 stores and 105 after January. Whitehall closing all stores Piercing Pagoda closing all stores Disney closing 98 stores and will close more after January. Home Depot closing 15 stores 1 in NJ (New Brunswick) Macys to close 9 stores after January Linens and Things closing all stores Movie Galley Closing all stores Pacific Sunware closing stores Pep Boys Closing 33 stores Sprint/ Nextel closing 133 stores JC Penney closing a number of stores after January Ethan Allen closing down 12 stores. Wilson Leather closing down all stores Sharper Image closing down all stores K B Toys closing 356 stores Loews to close down some stores Dillard's to close some stores.
Let me ask you this Don, since you're so happy we "might" not get any of these guys. Who is going to pitch in our rotation if "they're listening to you?" I count Wang, Joba, Hughes. Maybe Kennedy in the 5th slot. Who is our #4? And what happens if someone gets hurt?
and keep in mind Don thinks Hughes sucks. I cant say I disagree at this point but im just reminding all the viewers here.....so whats your rotation for next year Don
The Yankees have drawn over 4 million the last 4 years. The Mets and Yankees are the only teams to have drawn over 4 million in 2008. I am not sure how the economy is going to affect ticket sales in 2009. I know Mets season tickets have to be paid for in full by mid - December and they have already sold all their luxury boxes. Interesting to see if CitiBank renegs on its 10 year, 20 million dollar per year deal to have "mets" stadium, name CITI FIELD. If they reneg, I guess the Mets will have to rename their ballpark.
I'd be willing to predict that the Mets will repeat drawing 4M. (Obviously, there's a good chance there isn't even a Citibank left to place the naming rights, so who knows there.) Personally, I'd name it Shea if no one steps forward to fund it. I think the Sox would draw 4M if they had a bigger park as well. My opinion is that every team, unless they're substantially worse than this past year, will draw more fans in '09 than '08. Entertainment always draws more in poor economic times, and a trip to the ballpark will be the kind of thing families will be looking for to "escape" next summer, when they can't afford real vacations.
Yeah, I know. I don't personally agree, but I figured it was going to be hard enough for him to come up with one name to slot in, much less 3 if you count that he has no faith in either Hughes or Kennedy, if we don't get any of the "big 3" this offseason as he'd like to see happen.
