1st and Goal -- One decision stood out as symbolic fail

Discussion in 'Tebowmania' started by Bannon, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. Bannon

    Bannon New Member

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    Of all the frustration and misfires this season as it relates to Tebow/Sanchez, the one where it all just crystalized for me was last night when Tebow ran it for 13 yards, gashed 'em, and got to about the 2 or 3 yard line. First and goal.

    I was thinking "leave him in. Leave him in for 4 snaps if that's what it takes. He'll get it in the endzone."

    They gave him one try (wasn't blocked well, didn't work, that's okay). Then pulled him. Then that was the tipped ball interception. (I think it was a poor decision to throw it as well).

    Makes me want to puke -- with all that's gone wrong, all the adversity, that was the time to say "Come on, Tim. Give us something here. We're going to score or not with you."

    It is just moronic -- you've got one of the best direct snap runners of all time right there on the field, and you pull him in order to call a bang-bang pass play for Mark Sanchez (who's luck is not exactly good right now).

    Bad move. Come on, Jets. Grow a pair and use your weapons.
     
  2. catfish

    catfish New Member

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    I don't thin the INT was on that series...pretty sure they got 3 out of that
     
  3. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    As the person above me states, the INT was not on that series. The INT was in the Second Quarter and the series you are commenting on was in the Fourth Quarter.

    Either way though, I have to disagree with you. That was a very good play by Tebow and the offense, but I think they left him in too long. They do this all too often. When Tebow comes in and makes a nice play, that's when you take him out and put your QB in when its 1st and 10. Come back to the Tebow package later, keep the defense on its toes and mixing it up.

    It's happened too much that after they catch the defense with a good Tebow play, they leave him and the package in, allowing the defense to adjust/substitute and lose get no gains or lose yardage. Then you are putting Sanchez in with a tougher situation to work with 2nd or 3rd and long, making the offense too one dimensional.
     
  4. NewEnglandJet

    NewEnglandJet Banned

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    Not at the goal line. The kid is almost perfect for touchdowns inside the 5. Tebow should have had 4 attempts and no question would have pounded that in.
     
  5. Potzer

    Potzer New Member

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    Heh, I think Tebow would have scored.

    That said, I can't fault the decision to come back to the same play again on 1st and 10. I would like to see them hit a couple quick slants out of the Tebow package to keep the running lanes open. Or keep going deep.
     
  6. catfish

    catfish New Member

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    I agree in most situations, but not the goal line. Give 3 attempts from 3 yards out it is a TD 95% of the time if not more with Tebow in
     
  7. Bannon

    Bannon New Member

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    Goal line is different -- he's one of the most natural, gifted touchdown scorers in history. It would be one thing if he was on the bench cold, and you're worried about pulling Sanchez and changing the rhythm of the offence.

    But in that case -- he was already in there. He had just gotten a good run. The defense was on its heels. Go go go.
     
  8. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    the bad decision was brining him in, he always sets up Mark for a 2nd or 3rd and long whenever he comes in.
     
  9. hutch2426

    hutch2426 New Member

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    No he doesn't, if your going to hate on someone aleast us facts.
     
  10. catfish

    catfish New Member

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    much like running the ball does, you really can't argue that Tebow has been less effective than your normal run game. The only complaint would be that this game subbing him in seemed to cost some time outs
     
  11. SI_Jets_Fan

    SI_Jets_Fan Member

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    I completely agree. This situation was custom made for Tebow. He had just gashed them. Two more tries and it is 6 points. Instead, we put the ball in Sanche's hands. Two throws from the 2 yard line. HUH? :eek:hmy:
     
  12. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Tim Tebow and Cam Newton are two of the best running QBs in the league right now. But they both suffer from one big mistake.

    DUMP the stupid wildcat misdirection play. It hasn’t fooled anyone since last season. Its really easy to stop that play if everyone stays at home.

    Tebow is at his best running during broken plays. He should have a simple set of passes and if nothing comes open first scan then run like a madman. That’s Tebow at his best. Dump the wildcat'ish runs. (Same for Carolina).
     
  13. Remarker

    Remarker Banned

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    Pulling Tim AT the goal line is the #1 dumbest thing Rex or Tony has done.

    This event may turn out to be the single most referenced example used for describing Rex's or Tony's dismal game time decisions. Gruden expressed his surprise in the game broadcast as it happened.
     
    #13 Remarker, Oct 9, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  14. reverseapachemaster

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    I agree and disagree.

    Here's where I agree:

    I don't think Tebow should have come in at the end of the very successful drive and fuck up the momentum. Once they put Tebow in, they should have left him in and just pounded the ball into the endzone between Tebow and the RBs. It was stupid to go back to Sanchez and make it obvious a pass was coming.

    It was the archetype of what is wrong with the whole flipping QB scheme. It's like they are intentionally fucking up momentum and confusing themselves. If you want to bring in Tebow, leave him on the field for several plays in a row. Mix up him taking direct snaps, hand offs, going out for screens and blocking. Take out Sanchez for a play or two, bring him back in and let both stay on the field. Run the whole thing hurry up style.

    Where I disagree:

    Tebow isn't doing a great job with those direct snap plays, except for the fake punt, which is fine but you can't fake punt on 2 and 6. He's had very few direct snap or even hand off plays where he has pulled in more than three yards.
     
  15. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    he's had 2 good runs that have skewed his YPC.

    here are his runs this season:

    Buf:
    4 yds
    3
    0
    3
    1
    5 carries, 4 of them for less than 4 yds

    Pitt: 1 for 22

    Mia: 1 for 5(fake punt), 1 regular carry was for -5

    SF 2 for 0

    Hou:
    3
    3
    13
    0
    0

    the 13 was followed up w/ zero leaving Sanchez w/ 1 less down to score.


    ion any game where he has more than 1 carry his YPC is 2.5

    he's constantly putting mark in bad spots.
     
  16. Remarker

    Remarker Banned

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    You are speaking words of wisdom.

    If Mark is having a good drive then, by all means, give him a chance to finish. Otherwise it's a coach's show of no confidence. If the coaches make a change near the goal line, as happened in this past game, and Mark's replacement got a 1st and goal, to put Mark back in, as was done, signals that giving Mark the 'finish' is more important than Mark's replacement's 'in the bag' finish. Mark not being able to finish made it a lose lose lose situation. The coaches lose by making a dumb call, Mark loses because he failed to finish thereby making the coaches bad call blatantly obvious (the 3rd and maybe the worst 'lose').
     
  17. Potzer

    Potzer New Member

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    [​IMG]

    You're right, getting first downs for the offense when it couldn't deliver is bad, its costing Sanchez all of these great spots.

    Sanchez is really capitalizing on them too.
     
  18. catfish

    catfish New Member

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    If it wasn't for the 60 yard run you guys did pretty good against foster last night. you dont get to take away the good plays and then calculate carries. the reason the runs always end on a negative play is because as soon as they get 0 yards or 1 yard they pull him, they shouldlet him dig himself out. The fact remains that he is more productive than your other running backs in YPC for the year on an extremely limited number of carries. 20% of his carries have been on 4th down where you aren't trying to get big yards, just power up the middle for 3 to get the first down.

    let me put it in context since you brought up how it is affecting Sanchez rhythm.

    the drive stats arent up for last nights game so lets take the first 4 weeks.

    Tebow had 11 plays through the first 4 games, during that time the New york Jets had 44 Drives, they ran the ball 106 times, they passed the ball 138 times for a total of 244 plays from scrimmage

    you are telling me that a player who has had 1 snap every 4 drives some positive, some negative. some average. and has taken approximately 4% of the total plays from scrimmage is somehow affecting Mark Sanchez ability to play the QB position?
     
  19. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    he's had 2 runs of more than 4 yds on the season, the majority have been 3 yds or less.

    Absolutely he has an effect as nearly every time he comes in he sets up a 2nd or 3rd and long b/c he has been ineffective while in there. Most QBs get 3 doens to get a 1st down, mark is getting 2 at various points in each game.
     
  20. catfish

    catfish New Member

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    so as a percentage 20% of his carries are big plays? How does that stack up againt Greene...or Powell I know the majority of Greenes have been 3 yards or less, because his YPC is 2.9
     

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