Isn't that what we want him to be one day? A top 5 QB can make players around him better and mask deficiencies on the roster in addition to putting up big numbers year in and year out. He has a long way to get there for sure.
Can I ask you what you really didn't like about Allen if in the same breath you're going to bash anyone who brings up his terrible accuracy? What exactly is his tree of throws? Because his 2018 chart is abysmal. He's below average on almost every spot on the field. He can't throw to his right at all... and that includes in the flat. He didn't complete a single throw over the middle for 20+ yards. The only spot he breaks average is 10-19 yards over the middle, aka the slant zone. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/season/josh-allen/ALL529264/2018/season/qb-grid Edit: For shits, I pulled up Sam's chart. And I don't even care about the comparison between him and Allen... just in general look how well performed 11-20 yards to his left and over the middle. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/season/sam-darnold/DAR466141/2018/season/qb-grid
Hes late on some throws esp to his right & down the seam & he tends to sail those same balls.Ints waiting to happen against umbrella coverages.Hes reckless on some broken plays outside the pocket & hes alittle slow to process incl under pressure. Hes good on boundary throws outside the hashes,he can throw slants,hes great on deep in patterns & of course the over the top throws. Accuracy is not his strength.That doesnt mean it isnt adequate or that an offense cant be built around his strengths. But really..why are we even bothering w this? According to you he didnt have the accuracy to complete a single pass in the NFL.He was pure trash.So why dont we start there?
Why is everyone being so dramatic over Josh Allen criticisms? I don't get it. It's like a mini Tebow effect. "Great on deep in patterns" is also false. He didn't complete a single pass in the middle of the field, deep down the field. He basically plays the sidelines and that's it.
Want? Hell yeah. But the poster I quoted says he thinks Sam will be a top 5 QB. There's a difference between wanting something to happen and thinking it will.
Youre avoiding the question. Wheres this incompetent level ball placement you were touting all offseason & continue to? I have no problem w someone being skeptical of Josh Allen & ive layed out those sentiments. Frankly I dont want him to succeed cause he plays for a rival of the Jets. But i take player evaluation seriously as do others on here & while id never question you or others ability to form your own opinions..when you guys repeatedly double down that a 1st round QB has dreadful ball placement & is simply a trash QB,those are very strong opinions.When that doesnt exactly line up w the truth & this continues to be a battle cry it becomes an item of major contention. By all means..think poorly of Josh Alllen,i hope you guys are right bc it benefits the jets.But the cringeworthy accuracy argument has BECOME cringeworthy.
Late on some throws? He's pretty much late on every throw. Accuracy is also something that at times just cannot be developed. If he cannot adapt, he won't last in this league. Just like Lamar Jackson. Dude throws with absolute NO anticipation.
Well as i said processing is an issue which goes right along w anticipation.. When i say late im not talking like a split second im talking Dangerously late w the ball sailing right down the seam almost right into a dropping safeties hands w air under it.hes done it same spot on the field multiple times. But thats not ball placement. Thats mental. His raw ball placement is adequate. Hes in reality more of a mobile QB ala Newton or even Vick.Youre banking on his elite size/movement & arm strength to create chunk plays that wil offset some his pass tree limitations. Im not here to say hes the next Dan Marino or that he’ll even be good.I just despise this all encompassing flawed battle cry that hes Hackenburg 2.0 in terms of ball placement
All good. Truthfully, I wasn’t too down on Allen for a period of time, but predraft Dan Orlovsky broke down his college tape and really articulated why Allen would struggle at the NFL level. He said Allen doesn’t process what defenses are doing quick enough and most times speeding up this processing can’t be taught (see Sanchez). It’s actually one of Darnold’s strengths + why he will have long term success. It’s also exactly what you saw this year watching Allen in NFL games. He is way too quick to bail out of the pocket and run with the ball because he can’t read what the defense is doing. Sure he had some success (running), still not what you want in a long term Qb IMO.
For starters, I challenge you to find a post of mine that discusses Allen’s ball placement. I wouldn’t discuss it because to me you talk about ball placement when someone can make an accurate throw or a throw on time but they can’t put it where it needs to be for the WR to make a play on the ball. Allen can’t do either of those things very well so I would have never even bothered discussing ball placement. But either way, since you’re saying it’s a cringeworthy criticism and it “doesn’t line up with the truth”, I decided to see what I could find about his ball placement. Ironically, this Bills website summed up just how terrible he was at putting the ball where it needed to be among the 2018 NFL draft class of QBs in college: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/4/1/17185862/nfl-draft-qb-ball-placement-analysis Last or close to last in almost every single area of the field and situation. Yes it’s college, but it certainly lends credence to the criticism which I’m being told is made up. I mean go read every damn scouting report on the guy and check out the weaknesses. So someone’s opinion is definitely not lining up with the truth, or at least the hard facts. No offense, but I kind of assumed this was going to be the case after I showed you his passing chart where he completed 0 passes deep and over the middle, then you said he’s great at throwing the deep in. And if you’re going to play the “he got better” card then you’re gonna have to show the card. At some point someone has to be able to provide some sort of proof other than just an opinion.
http://forums.theganggreen.com/thre...-the-savior-of-jets.91955/page-5#post-3796928 "Not a good thrower of the football". Well you obviously aren't talking about his arm strength..What are we referring to?"Thrower" suggests arm talent. @BrowningNagle referenced a post you made about Allen being "trash". I recall seeing that same post including about his accuracy but now cannot find it as my browser is having some issues w. a few pages of this thread. If this was not you I apologize. **Edit: It was not you...a different poster. I'm not here to put words in your mouth** As for your pass chart connotation, what you actually sent me was Julian Edelman's Route tree during the Super bowl that nobody watched.Given we're both jet fans I'm gonna assume this wasn't done in poor taste Here's his QB Grid https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/season/josh-allen/ALL529264/2018/season/qb-grid So while I might've been alittle off on the distance on some of his stronger portions of the field he DOES throw well on certain depths between the hashes including from 20 & In.. I was also referring to throws down the deep seam which could technically be included within the boundary Quadrants. Guess I'm not as clueless as you'd like to believe. I stand by my own opinions. I certainly compare those against other outlets including PFF,Ourlads & the like...but you'll never see me reference any of them or consider them gospel b.c quite often I disagree & wouldn't ya know every now & then I'm right. I'm well aware of scouting reports bashing his accuracy.Guess what? There were plenty of folks w. informed opinions who liked Allen & thought his throwing ability/accuracy was just fine. Pat Kirwin,Boomer Esiasion,John Wooten And nobody was saying he was Steve Young. But Jet fans & Allen Haters took this accuracy or "Thrower" thing to a different level. With the stuff we continue to hear you'd think he never completed an NFL pass nevermind had multiple 300 yard games.
First off I have no idea how that link sends you to Edelman’s page. Even the link says “Josh Allen” in it. Internet hates both of us I guess. Second, not a good thrower means he doesn’t do enough well as a passer to make him a legit NFL QB in my eyes. His first year only confirmed that. His accuracy was terrible, his decision making was bad... basically all of his scouted weaknesses were still weaknesses. He’s a home run hitter that can’t hit singles, doubles or triples when he’s not hitting homers. Also... Allen didn’t throw for over 250 yards in any game this year let alone have multiple games with over 300 yards throwing.
JFC, i thought i was looking at Allen’s stats but PFR sent me to matthew stafford’s.It’s me the internet doesnt like.Im half thinking “this doesnt seem right” By the way your orig link had Josh Allen typed in search bar but on Edelman’s page. Even so he threw for over 200 yards in 5 games plus some comeback wins.https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=AlleJo02. Id venture to say that maybe accuracy isnt his strength that he is competent to a certain extent. Now the big picture is something we agree on.Hes more of a home run hitter & he will live n die by that notion. Im not closing the curtain on him but his problems to me seem more mental w reading the field,making quick throws & poor decision under duress..Still Its possible things slow down for him as he settles in & Bills fans have to hope this is the case. He needs to be surrounded by catching radius types who can t advantage of his arm strength & compensate for the so so placement. Its not a perfect comp by any means but its sort if similar to when Michael Vick came out.His route tree was garbage when he first came in..and Reeves made it even worse in year 2 by somehow thinking he was a fit for the WCO. It took Vick a long while to mold his game & become a refined passer.
You make a good point. But I do believe you will be that good. I thought he played very well and more than half the games. And keep in mind it was only a one-year starter in college. So show the more experience he gets the better he'll be thmore experience he gets the better he'll be
if they don't fix the offensive line, we are looking at sanchez 2.0... which is why i did not want another usc qb in the first place i would have grabbed mayfield, which the browns did two picks ahead of us he is more suited to operating behind an average or less quality line
Savior would be someone who does it all alone. There are a lot of factors that will go into saving a team. He will be the most important piece, but he can't do it alone. By the time he is Mayfields age, 24 he will be a top 7 QB. We sometimes forget this guy is just turning 22 this summer. The ceiling is high and it looks like he is climbing, by last quarter of the year he was rated #1 QBR for the last 4 games. He went from 9 fumbles lost in college in 17 to 1 fumble lost in 18 in the NFL. That's progress. Now work on Interceptions in 19. Savior no because he can't do it alone, but the most important part to saving the Jets, yes! I feel his ceiling is higher the Ryan & Stafford.
Gotta hand it to you Jets fans, you’re much kinder to opposing QBs than Browns or Bills fans are to Sam, they love referring to him as “trash” Sam had a terrible offensive line at USC, and it was much, much worse in 2017 when he lost 3 starters, and two weapons, JuJu and Adoree’ - who was as much a weapon on offense as defense. His Oline in the NFL has been just as bad, unlike Mayfield’s in college and the NFL.
