there is a chance that allen and darnold go 1 and 2 leaving us with rosen and mayfield as the options. so i'll break it down like i did here http://forums.theganggreen.com/thre...-pick-what-the-film-shows.90242/#post-3677041 but with this time using rosen instead of allen Some abbreviations used UC (under center) SG (shotgun) PA (play action) RO (roll out) QBD (QB draw play) Due to post length i'll only do about the 1st 3 mins or so. I also ask people refrain form commenting until I post it all as it'll take multiple posts Baker Mayfield Link: Length 7:02 (it was hard finding a newer long video of his) Date: 12/2017 00) SG, PA, Wide open TE, misses high, TE makes the catch but falls down short of the goaline. should have been a walk in TD (missing high down the field is a theme for him as you'll see) 07) SG, from the 17, WR has a step on the DB, perfect time to drop it in the bucket ahead of the WR like allen does above He misses outside and WR has to adjust to make the TD harder then it should have been 18) SG form the 5, PA, 1 read timing route, TE is wide open, completes the pass, but again high and the TE has to adjust on what should have been an easy TD 24) SG, from the 4, PA, RO, hits wide open WR in the end zone in stride. perfect pass but no pressure and very easy routine play to a wide open WR (35) SG from the 18, PA, timing route on the slant. he throws high and behind the WR. the WR makes a nice catch and gets the TD but takes an unnecessary hit on what should have been a walk in TD. 45) From the 10, SG, pocket collapses, he buys time and makes a great throw to his target in between 2 defenders in stride. Best play i've seen mayfield make but it was a under 10 yard pass on the run 53) SG from the 25, 3rd and 8, clean packet, timing route back shoulder throw, solid throw and the WR makes a great play on it. no complaints here. one of his better throws (1:00) SG, PA, perfect pass to a wide open WR downfield on a blown coverage (1:12) SG form the 22, rolls out, throws downfield high again (1:22) SG form the 21, clean pocket, easy TD to pass to a wide open WR he underthrows (1:28) SG form the 12, timing route on the slant. WR wide open. throw is high and outside and WR has to adjust on what should have been an easy TD (1:36) SG form the 24, clean pocket, pump fake, throws downfield to an open WR. throw is behind and WR needs to adjust leading to an unnecessary hit on what should have been an easy TD Deeper breakdown on plays 2 and 3 the 2nd pic the WR has a step on the DB, the throw should be high and leading him aka a "drop in the bucket throw" he throws it way outside instead of dropping it in front of the Wr like you should, and the WR has to turn around and jump outside to make the play. there was nobody behind the WR to contest the throw, this was a typical seam route that should have been dropped into the back of the end zone over all the coverage. the WR ha to stop and make a big adjustment on a poorly thrown ball the 3rd one the TE was wide open off the line. nobody behind him and everyone beat. mayfield jumps in the air fading backwards for no good reason (possibly lack of height) making the throw sail and be behind the TE. He could have easily dropped it in front of him. nobody was there He seems to "throw to the WR" in situations he needs to "throw to a spot" you don't get more open then that in football in the red zone Conclusion: What i see from this is a QB who can buy time and has good accuracy on shorter passes. Down the field however he struggles with ball placement often having deep balls sail on him, or under throwing his WRs. he's also benefited from having huge windows to throw into, that he won't have in the NFL. Accuracy isn't a number or stat, it's the ability to place the ball where it needs to be when it needs to be there, and mayfield struggles doing that over 10 yards. While many went for TDs and completions, they weren't well thrown balls which is why you can't go by stats. You don't see many "NFL" passes in these clips. no throwing into tight windows, no film on playing from under center. timing routes, and no ability to drop it in the bucket in stride to a WR with 1 step on the DB. This is why i don't see mayfield as an accurate QB or a successful QB in the NFL If there is a high enough demand i can do more breakdown of each play in the clips above as well. Once again, please refrain from commenting until I have rosen up
Josh Rosen Link Date 08/17 Length 8:12 08) SG from the 10, stands in the pocket and delivers perfectly on a slant 21) UC, from the 40, PA, Zone coverage. WR settles down in the hole in the zone and the ball is there right on time where ti should be 29) SG . zone coverage. again hits the WR in stride and on time 38) stands in pocket form the 10, delivers a strike where only the WR can get it for a TD. low and away to save his WR a hit 40) simple drag route, Wide open WR underneath, throw is slightly behind but not too much to stop momentum. WR still turns upfield for a TD 47) UC, PA, stands in pocket, steps up, delivers a strike downfield (35-40 yards) to a covered WR. great throw, but a little behind the WR, had he led him more it's a TD 59) SG form the 18, routine pass to wide open WR but again a little behind and not in stride (1:08) SG, good protection, steups up in the pocket. takes the safe underneath throw a little behind again (1:29) Stands in the pocket, throws WR open with perfectly placed ball (1:35) SG, steps up in the pocket. delivers 42 yards down the field on a rope perfectly between 2 defenders Conclusion This video wasn't the best made so I did what i could with it. it's also not new enough to cover the 2017 season. what i do see though is a QB who makes all the throws you'd expect a QB to make and can throw a WR open when he needs to, and isn't afraid to take the safe play. What i don't like, is he doens't seem to like to push the ball downfield, doens't make "impressive" throws like Allen does, isn't mobile, and tends to throw slightly behind WRs on drag routes but not as bad as mayfield does. He's also smart and patient. In short, while his film won't wow you, He does show all the traits you'd want in a FQB and can make the throws you are supposed to make on the NFL level. Now you can all comment
For me it is Mayfield but not because he is a better passer than Rosen. I think Rosen is the better passer. What scares me about him is his commitment to football and durability. That said I wouldn’t be upset at all if Jets went with Rosen as he is also pretty high in my book. I like both Rosen and Mayfield and any one of them would make Jets one step closer to having a franchise QB
You might be right. I don’t watch college football. All I did was to watch tape about the top 4 QB’s and I loved Rosen as a passer. But I also liked Mayfield very much. I am a noob when it comes to college QB’s so my opinion isn’t really worth a damn. That said somehow Rosen’s concussion issues are mentioned much more than Mayfield.
@SolidGoldBowles Are you doing a Rosen vs. Allen thread? That is the most likely #3 pick decision the Jets will be making. Also, great job!
Rosen has been my guy all along. While he doesn't have great mobility he does have good pocket presence & knows how to buy himself time. I also like how he'll stand it the pocket & take a hit. He doesn't have the big arm of Allen...but who does? Rosen has a quick release, good velocity on throws & can drive it down the seam. He's not limited within his route tree by any means. Love his swagger & think he's perfect for the Jets.
I could combine the 2 yes. I was thinking of doing a jackson thread too, he's arm is much better then mayfields as well but isn't really an option at 3 so didn't feel it was worth the time. also thanks!
It could be wrong, I read it here in a thread but that doens't mean it's true either lol evenyone's opinion is worth a dam IMO, just not the people that refuse to have one but want to quote useless stats and statements LMAO
In order for that to happen, the Giants would have to pass on the QB's and also stay put at #2. I think it's much more likely they either take a QB, or trade to Denver while trying to screw us over in the process. In either event, I think Allen would be the target for both the Giants and Denver (or even Buffalo). I think the NYJ choice will be between Mayfield and Rosen, but I'm holding out hope for Allen!
I'm not a doctor, but I do know you can't count concussions like gum drops. Concussions come in degrees, and guys react to and recover (or fail to recover) from them differently. Two bad concussions can be worse than 10 small ones, and two mild ones -- if they come right on top of each other -- can be much worse than if there is recovery time in between. If Rosen's concussion situation is raising red flags and Mayfield's isn't, it's probably for a good reason, and not because of an arithmetic mistake.
Are we analyzing highlight films? If so agree Allen’s is the most impressive. The problem is that 90% of the rest of his tape (actual games) is bad. For what it’s worth Christian Hackenberg’s highlight film is better than both Rosen and Mayfield. Shows way more ability to drop it in the bucket and drive it down the field... But again not sure what we are evaluating.
that is very true as well. I'm not a doctor either. Personally as a fan, I wouldn't worry about concussions. the teams medical staff will be able to make an assessment much better then us
Rosen is a steroid version of Goff IMO, won't need a McVay to have success. Goff has amazing mechanics, but is raw in terms of reading defenses and playing a pro style offense. Having McVay put in the pre snap reads helps Goff a lot. Rosen doesn't need any of that, his football IQ IMO might be the best since Andrew Luck, but the Jets will have to protect him, from himself and Rosen needs to learn to check down and take what the defense gives him in the clutch moments. I heard him talk about going through progressions and getting to that 3rd read, while it is good it is also best to take what the defense gave you and take those couple of yards and live for another down. If he cannot grasp this concept, Rosen will not make it IMO.
we are looking at their ability to make "NFL" throws. If a QB's highlight film looks bad, what do you think their regular film would look like? Mayfield was a 4 year starter in college. he's thrown 1497 passes. If someone can't even string together 10% (150 passes) as being good, then that is a serious issue. I do agree though that Allen looking amazing in a small sample size, doesn't mean he'll be a good NFL QB. i'm more concerned that you can't even get a good 5 min film on mayfield out of a 4 year career. that's way more concerning to me
I've seen a lot of praise of rosen's football IQ. his film also shows he doens't take bad chances. He looks the part all the way. Very smart and patient player with a good enough arm. He isn't as impressive on film as allen (few are) but he's still everything you want in a QB. thee attitude issues are a bit overblown, from what i read, it stems from him essentially berating teammates for not being as smart as him. He'll grow out of it. Peyton manning was notorious for yelling at his teammates as well when they fucked up.
Allen and Jackson make highlight reel throws ... but Rosen is the definition of consistency, which is exactly what the Jets need. However, Rosen under pressure, he needs to do better. He needs a nice passing catching back.
I hope Eli McGuire can be this now that our 2nds are both gone. He showed some nice flashes but never put it all together.
From what i seen on rosen, when pressured he'll often take the safety valve throw to the RB and seems to always know where that is (high football IQ at play) I can see him being very good at not turning it over, but I would like to see more throws downfield. in the NFL you cna't rely on your RBs to catch 100 balls every year. defenses will plan around it. I'd like to see rosen buy time and chuck it deep at times
if Rosen is the definition of consistency, why can't he win a road game? I think Mayfield was the most consistent of this crop.
