the John Idzik Thread. (All GM Discussion in Here)

The question of whether we were better off in 2006 or 2013 is irrelevant. The shortcuts that the Jets took in 2007, 2008 and 2009 essentially capped them. Too many older players brought in en masses to fill holes. Too many younger players not drafted at all because the Jets were sinking 3 picks apiece into a bunch of players, some who worked out and some who didn't. Too many draft picks traded for older players. A 3rd and a 5th looked like a steal for Kris Jenkins. We know how that turned out. A 3rd and a 5th for Braylon Edwards. Ditto. An amorphous pick for Favre to spearhead Mangini's last season.

We kept taking short cuts and sooner or later when you take a short cut you wind up lost in the woods with no idea how to get back on the path. If you keep taking short cuts it's just a question of when, not whether.

There are very few short cuts on this 2014 Jets roster. The ones that are there are obvious and they'll either work out or they'll be gone fairly quickly. CJ, Vick and Babin, all brought in to play roles on the team where there were other people expected to produce. All unlikely to be on the 2016 team although any of them could surprise us.

The biggest difference between the previous regimes and this regime is that vets were often brought in to be mainstays on 4+ year deals. This regime has done that twice and in both cases they did it cost-effectively.

For the record there were 22 players brought in between 2001 and 2012 and signed to 4+ year deals to start for the Jets. There were slightly more in this category in the 5 years from 2001 to 2005 than in the 7 years from 2006 to 2012.

That's because the first regime essentially built their defensive backfield from free agents before 2005.

 

There goes your problem. I never said the Jets "failed" at anything. In fact, I said "I appreciate the overall premise of patience". I just asked that we slow down on the whole Idzik has this Seattle like championship plan narrative that gets thrown out there to explain every move he makes or lack there of. All I'm saying you can turn things around quickly in the NFL just as easily as you can take have a 3-5 years plan that amounts to shit.

 

We can all speculate on the reasons Tanny was fired, but to me it was not so much the 6-10 record as it was moves made in the previous off season. Part involved his role in the Tebow Fiasco, although there's blame to be shared there with Woody and perhaps Ryan. But the main thing was the Sanchez contract extension. It was done in panic to assuage MS's hurt feelings over the Tebow trade, was undeserved by Sanchez and extended the time the Jets essentially could not cut MS another year.

Of course those were not the only problems, and some might focus on such things as the Holmes and Cromartie contracts, the looming no good options choices on what to do with Revis, and the lack of any competition for Sanchez. But I think Tanny would still be here despite those problems but for hte Sanchez contract.

Comparing the 12 team with last year's, it's hard to find a clear upgrade in roster talent. The best piece of evidence in that regard was drafting Richardson. But the second best was signing Ivory, which was an FA move and not a draft pick, and supposedly not a big part of Idzik's approach to rebuilding the team. And the record of the 13 team was not much better, either. Most of that improvement was based on luck, such as the TB game and facing teams that were cratering down the stretch.

Much will depend on how the roster performs this season. I don;t think Idzik gets a pass this year no matter what the record or effort.

 

If it's irrelevant why bother go through all that trouble of looking up all that stuff to respond. I thought that was the catalyst for this bombardment of opposition.

While I thought Tanny deserved to be fired for his recent poor drafts, I don't buy in to this belief that his all in approach was wrong. The same contracts that hindered us led to cap space we have now just 2 removed from his departure. The cuts Idzik made to get to this point are the same moves that every Jets fan and beat writer said we would do and needed to do. I think it's fair to say that Tanny or any other GM could have done the exact same thing as we pretty much had to. Given the opportunity I think I would definitely sacrifice a couple bad seasons thereafter for a couple legitimate shots at the SB. Especially, if I can then clean house and start anew just 2 years later. At the end of the day, Idzik will be judge on his draft choices, FA acquisitions and playoff wins. Aside from Sheldon, I don't understand the blind faith in Idzik. IMO think the championship roster talk is just as silly as the fire Idzik talk.

 

The OP assumes that Rex picked Sheldon. Makes sense that a first year GM who's tying to put his imprint on the team he is now running would defer a first round draft pick to the holdover coach that he inherited. I like Rex, and I like Idzy. That doesn't mean that I like every decision they make. It's going to take some patience when evaluating Idzik's overall competency...

 

The all-in approach was wrong. The Jets didn't have the QB to make it work and the one year they had the QB they had a 39 year old guy who didn't want to be here.

As to the Championship roster talk, flawed teams win the Super Bowl all the time.

That's like the Giants two wins in a nutshell.

That's like the Ravens winning after getting 10 wins and finishing middle of the pack on both offense and defense in terms of yards gained and allowed.

It's like the Packers winning in the year they went 10-6 and kept losing games to teams under .500. None of those in the playoffs lucky for them, huh?

It's like the Saints winning in the year they couldn't stop the run and matching up against the Cardinals (28th rushing team), Vikings (Adrian Peterson fumbled twice and Vikings fumbled 6 times overall) and Colts (32nd rushing team) in the playoffs.

Half of the NFL has a Championship caliber roster at this point because parity has made the openers in that conversation less formidable. Last year was the first year in a long time where neither of the teams in the Super Bowl got there with a hot rush at the end and a lot of luck.

All of that said, I don't think the Jets have a Championship caliber roster at this point. I just wouldn't be all that surprised if my perception was different by the time December rolls around.

 

Idzik is not the problem.
In fact we have finally started to build a nice YOUNG core of players. Idzik has sprinkled in some nice vet FA's to help the young guys and get results now.
If he cant sign Mo or if he panics and starts trading away draft picks THEN i could understand some heat... Far too early to judge Idzik.

 

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The problem I have with the rebuild is that Rex should have been gone and we should have started all over.

 

No you can't, not and maintain extended success unless you get extremely lucky. You can bring in expensive veteran FAs and compete for a year or two as the Jets did in 2009 & 2010, but then you pay the consequences...bloated cap and can't get rid of those older, more expensive players and then you team falls out of playoff contention for several years. Some rookies come in and contribute at a high level immediately. Other take some time, perhaps even a year or two to develop. It's not an exact science. Luck plays a huge part in it, but the abilities of your scouting dept. and your CS also play a big part.

 

The Jets are a couple of receivers and cornerbacks away from being a good team. Idzik inherited a team lacking talent and direction. I'd give him an A for effort and a B for results. We needed a QB and he drafted the best one available. We lost our best CB and he replaced him. We'll have to wait a couple of years to see the results. His problem is that he waits too long before making a decision. He sat on his hands when Revis was available and let him go to NE. We needed another WR and he didn't sign one. Now his decisions will cost us. Decker is hurt and Millner is perpetually injured. The question is can Idzik - Rex work? Who knows?

 

It starts with ownership stupidly (or stubbornly) replacing one cap manager with another at GM.

The bottom line is your GM and coach have to have an eye for talent. And they have to care about more than just one side of the ball. Pete Carroll and John Schneider. Phil Emery and Marc Trestman.

When was the last time the New York Jets drafted a receiver as skilled as Jordy Nelson? Keyshawn Johnson maybe?

When was the last time the coaching staff developed a standout QB or offensive skill position player?

Having Terry Bradway continue to have influence in scouting and front office work is the definition of insanity.

 

The bottom line is the bottom line,we didn't need to save all this cap space we could have signed a viable corner to start oppisite Millner as Millner develops.Millner might have developed better if he had a guy like Revis to watch and play with and learn from

 

It is way too early to objectively judge Idzik, but people are overreacting because maybe they thought we would compete for the Superbowl this year. As far as his drafting, I'd say he had a really good first year, drafting Richardson (DROY) and Geno (who is looking if not great at least like a capable quarterback this year), and don't forget Bohannon, who looked really good yesterday. Jury is still out on Milliner and Winters is looking more and more like a bust, but obviously no one hits with every pick. If we can get a stud DE/DT and a decent QB, and a starting fullback, that's a pretty good draft year. This year, too early to tell now. Then you have to look at his free agent signings/trades, Decker is looking really good now, Ivory was a great acquisition, Vick is a good back up, Giaconmini is alright.

We still have major holes obviously, secondary in particular, but Rome wasn't built in a day. All of you whining about Idzik not signing a veteran CB in the offseason, have you watched the Giants game yesterday? Rodgers-Cromartie had some moments, but he also got burned a bunch of times by a backup QB. Do you think he would've come in and shut down Nelson against Rodgers? Probably not, and this guy is getting 8 million a year.

 

The real question is, when was the last time the Jets were in the position to? And if you say Alshon Jeffery I'll just have to laugh, and anyone with a brain and two eyes knows why.

 

Not a chance in hell anyone is reading that post. Holy shit I've never seen something so visually unappealing that contains nothing but words.

 

Which corner did you want Idzik to sign? Revis wasn't happening, DRC looks like crap, and Verner looks okay, but we clearly weren't sold on him as a man to man corner. Thurmond is out for the year with a injury and he was only a slot corner.