Why can't Darron Lee cover anyone?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JethroTull, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't help when you have 3 down linemen all 1 gapping.If you're gonna have undersized LBs that can cover ground you need to compensate for their inability to stack/shed by giving protection up front.. Lee & Davis stand no chance under the current circumstances..

    Bowles needs to either accept that you sacrifice speed & closing ability from your LBs playing in a 3-4 or switch to a scheme that caters to 1 gapping/undersized LBs like 4-3 under.

    Enough trying to have cake & eating it too
     
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  2. Will-I-Am-Not

    Will-I-Am-Not Well-Known Member

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    Lee is starting to look like another painful example of why you don't draft players based on stopwatch times or combine performance. If I remember correctly, Burfict ran a 5.6 forty and he's a Pro Bowler. Shame on Macagnan, his failures are really starting to add up.
     
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  3. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    The reason I mentioned that is because apparently he only played 19 snaps at safety. He struggled in the run game as he played primarily in the box. From what I remember, I think Adams had a nice pass-breakup on the TEs on a few plays, but wasn't able to standout nearly as much. Clay still got a TD catch in the RZ, could've sorely used him there.

    For Lee, the Jets need a thumper to play alongside Lee, personally I think Davis isn't all that great never was. That's what I meant more-so in terms of Lee's role, to eliminate the pass catching backs, roam in space and make plays. Blitz here and there. We got him playing a traditional linebacker role.
     
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  4. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

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    Well he couldnt cover anyone at ~225 pounds so I wouldn't expect him to at ~235.

    Guy looks absolutely useless out there.
     
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  5. ChrebetCrunch

    ChrebetCrunch Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read all of the previous posts, so forgive me if this was already covered. Is Lee's failures a scheme thing or a talent thing? Is there a scheme or position that would better suit him? Bowles loves to play people out of position, so I am not giving up on Lee just yet.

    #notmyheadcoach
     
  6. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    The Clay TD pass was on Maye but I won't dog the rookie yet. I'm just saying that most of the "misuse" by Bowles is stemming from the fact that the linebackers were truly awful no matter what Bowles asked of them.

    With Adams they adjusted and brought him in the box for most of the second half. He wasn't playing that early on but they did so out of necessity because they were getting absolutely gashed in the running game during Buffalos first 3 drives. Lee & Davis were both taking horrible angles. JV mentioned they should use Lee primarily in the run game to stop the outside rush, but Lee can't even DO that as bites on any misdirection and takes a disgusting angle.

    Watch this at the 1:51 mark you might have to go to youtube to watch it.

    3rd down and 3 in the second quarter at midfield. We already got gashed by Buffalo's run game their first drive but got that nice INT. They run a conservative zone run and Mccoy takes it outside. this is an example of the run play you, JV, me, Bowles, we all expect Sharon Lee to be able do something about. His head is up his ass, misses the read, takes a terrible angle and Mccoy is 10 yards down the field before he takes a crap angle and he's flailing his arms like a fairy in pursuit. Some good that 4.3 speed did him. 23 yard run.

    It's after nearly an entire half of that that Bowles & Co decided they needed to bring Adams up in the run game to help out.

    so you have Lee terrible in the run game, terrible when asked to cover the pass in zone or man. He's useless
     
  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    This is another example of a GM/HC trying to cover up their bad decision. Lee was a very bad pick; Hack was a bad pick; and yet Mack and Bowles keep supporting them. If they were coldly objective, both would've been gone already.
     
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  8. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I just watched it and honestly, he's definitely not making his presence felt enough, not nearly. I know he had a few tackles for losses and a sack, but not enough especially in terms of playing cover linebacker, he hasn't had any positive plays in terms of that. Right now, he seems like a Robin, he needs a big linebacker to take on those blockers top open things up. Jets defensive line also needs to open up more opportunities, there is virtually no push in the middle on passing downs. The interior offensive line is stopping them in their tracks. Leonard Williams is breaking through, and also a rare sighting from Mo on some plays, but it's not enough.

    Time to get Simon upgraded from the PS to the active roster.
     
  9. RIPJimLeonhard

    RIPJimLeonhard Active Member

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    We have gaping holes at arguably the 2 most important areas after QB, Linebacker and O-line.
     
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  10. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Watching Seattle's defense on Sunday and even the Saints and definitely the Vikings tonight make me wish we just ran a fucking 4-3. Get a couple edge rushers and virtually every linebacker can play in the 4-3 at one of the spots. The 3-4 requires such specific niche players that it's so difficult to build if you do not find the generational edge rusher.
     
    #111 Jonathan_Vilma, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  11. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

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    i hope its not a scheme thing since they brought him in as a system player.

    he never had the talent. he was a 3rd-4th round talent. they wanted him to be like what the cardinals had. a safety at linebacker
     
  12. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

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    It's both. Coming out of college he was rated as the very best linebacker in the draft and a prototypical 4-3 linebacker. It mentions that Lee could play in a 3-4 as well, however I find that to be the only outright lie on the report?

    His scouting report also very clearly lays out all of the issues with Lee. He's undersized and must add weight to be effective. He must prove he wasn't a product of all of the talent around him. He must be taught to play linebacker and basically not do whatever he feels like out there. The scouts worried about his over pursuit.

    Just google search his scouting report and you'll see everything.

    Right now, all of the negatives reported about him have turned out to be true. He just looked good at Ohio St. because of the talent surrounding him. He must gain weight, but hasn't. He must be taught to play linebacker and he's clearly not learning anything? IMO, Lee looked worse last Sunday than at any point in his rookie season.
     
  13. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to shy away from scheme mattering as much for an inside linebacker as we make it out robber. Good linebackers find their way to the ball regardless of the scheme.

    Lawrence Timmons comes to mind. He was an undersized cover 2 linebacker from Florida State coming out of the draft and ended up being a great 3-4 inside linebacker because he has a nose for the ball.

    Ray Lewis was considered too small in general and ended up being the best (or top 3) ever.

    Ryan Shazier is a virtual physical equal to Darron Lee at 229 pounds and he finds his way to the ball and makes plays.

    Derrick Johnson has switched from a 4-3 backer to 3-4 in multiple variations of both schemes and has excelled at multiple spots at a Pro Bowl level.

    Non pass rushing linebacker is one of the few positions in the NFL where there is limited development IMO. They either have the traits to track the ball and get their quickly in whatever way they need to or they don't. It's an incredibly instinctual position.

    Darron Lee may be 'out of position' but if he were as talented as touted he would make it work and be a good player. I feel like OSU used him as a gadget player and simply put him in the perfect position to succeed, which is not a luxury the NFL offers for linebackers.
     
  14. JetLifeLo

    JetLifeLo Well-Known Member

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    Is todd bowles defense too confusing for young players?
     
  15. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    I think it's clear, Bowles is married to his scheme. He's not taking the talent at hand and molding the defense in that regard. Sheldon at linebacker, you don't see Powell out there though you could point that finger at the offensive coordinator for not playing him more. Or perhaps both of them on the field at the same time.
     
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  16. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    I think it's both, the guys you mentioned did not really play in a hybrid scheme like Bowles uses. There was less to learn other than their specific responsibility.

    Shazier is a good example of a guy who got it after one year in the 3-4 zone blitz package that Pitt uses. There is no hybrid scheme, where they switch based on personnel.

    You can have a talented player like Shazier, but if he were in TB scheme, he would have to learn two sets of responsibilities, one for when they use a 4-3 package and then learn the responsibility of a 3-4 package, you can tell Lee is still thinking out there, his bad angles and lack of discipline is a result of having too much to dissect.

    These are the pitfalls of having a young team, that's why guys like Parcells and now Bowles would rather have veterans.

    The other side of this is that he will get it, young players need time to develope and grow, maybe if he didn't have so much to think about he would have a faster learning curve.

    I believe he will get it, give him time, you will see the growth by end of year. Look at the bright side, jets offense is so bad lee will have plenty of time on field to gain experience.
     
    #117 Red Menace, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  17. JetLifeLo

    JetLifeLo Well-Known Member

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    truthfully, I wouldnt mind having them both in the back field, Forte is one hell of a blocker. Could probably be some kind of hybrid fullback type player. Not full-term, just to add something different to our offense.
     
  18. BomberJet

    BomberJet Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. People here are making super quick knee jerk reactions to a player that is only as good as his coaches allow him to be. He looks confused out there from the game tapes that I've seen. With all the personnel changes this team has gone thru, this is just a major work in progress. I'm becoming less and less a Bowles supporter, but I'll take a wait-n-see approach til mid-season report card.
     
  19. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    That sort of goes against my point though. Good linebackers go out there and make plays on their instincts regardless of what's going on around them in terms of scheme and all that garbage.

    It's one of the few positions in the sport that I think you can immediately tell if the guy is going to be a player because they are instinctually making plays from the get-go. I don't see him out there making plays.
     

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