The Official 2017-18 NHL Thread

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by The Dark Knight, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Yisman

    Yisman Newbie
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    Crosby has spend an entire career skating with total crap on his line (random AHL and OHL players). Ovechkin skated with Oshie/Backstrom since they acquired Oshie, until this year, when they switched things up (moving Oshie and Backstrom off the top line, and having Kuznetsov center it).

    Crosby also is far superior defensively to Ovechkin.

    I know you don't want to hear it, but Ovechkin has always been the biggest star on his team, and his teams have never won anything.

    This is not just confined to the NHL, either. Check out Team Russia's results in the three Olympics Ovechkin has participated in (he was obviously the biggest star on all the teams). You can contrast that with Canada's results in Crosby's Olympics.


    Peyton Manning was the starting QB on two SB winners as well as the starting QB on two SB losers. When Ovechkin has even appeared in a Stanley Cup Finals, let alone won one, get back to me.
     
    #41 Yisman, Feb 3, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  2. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Team Canada is the exact same as the Penguins. Always surrounded by great players and coaches. People see what they want to see I think (In terms of Crosby). Doesn't mean he is bad. He is obviously good, as is Brady. They just have many factors going for them. The opposite is true for Ovechkin and Manning. Hopefully Ovechkin's team steps up for him one day. Only so much a Left Wing can do...
     
  3. Yisman

    Yisman Newbie
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    Team Russia is always stacked and they haven't medaled in Ovechkin's three Olympics.

    Some of that blame has to go to the biggest star, just like Ovechkin has to take some of the blame for the Capitals always falling short in the playoffs, despite them usually having superior talent.

    Saying Crosby is "good" is an all-time understatement. He's one of the greatest players to ever play the game.
     
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  4. Yisman

    Yisman Newbie
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    Brad Marchand aka The Rat is still serving a five game suspension.

    Filip Forsberg just got suspended for three games. He was just returning from injury (he missed a bunch of games already).
     
  5. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    And Ovechkin isn't? He clearly is. I compared him to Brady. Seemed fair.

    And my analogy was good. Last night Brady became the victim of what usually occurs to Manning or Rodgers. You can only do so much in a team sport. Crosby's team around him and coach has been better than Ovechkin's the last couple seasons and especially in head to head match-ups.
     
  6. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    Do you even watch hockey? This is some of the most asinine information I have ever seen posted on this board about the Crosby and Ovechkin comparison.

    They are two different players, one is a power forward the likes of which only 2 or 3 have ever played the game and the other is a one dimensional offensive player similar to Wayne Gretzky.

    The penguins have lived and have had success without Crosby while the Capitals could not survive without Alex.

    Using Stanley Cups to determine a players greatness is a junk argument. There have been great hockey players that have never won a cup.

    It's like using no SB victories to discredit Marinos greatness as a QB.
     
    #46 Red Menace, Feb 5, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  7. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    The "Ovechkin"

    similar to a white russian. 2 oz Vodka. 1 oz. Kaluha. Milk/Heavy Cream for taste. BUT NO CUP
     
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  8. Yisman

    Yisman Newbie
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    Yes, and going by your insipid post, it's pretty obvious I watch more hockey than you do.

    I didn't compare Crosby to Ovechkin. There's no comparison, IMO. I was responding to a post comparing them.

    If you watched more Capitals games, you'd know be more familiar with Ovechkin's game and his strengths and weaknesses.

    I'm not ranking players by how many Stanley Cups they've won, simply noting that Ovechkin has never been to the Eastern Conference Finals (he was drafted in 2004) and he's been on a number of stacked teams that were the Stanley Cup favorites for a reason.

    The notion that Ovechkin should never take any blame for his teams' shortcomings is ludicrous.

    I've been posting about NHL on TGG for many years and I almost never post about Crosby or Ovechkin because again, there's no comparison, but in the words of nyjunc, I must respond.
     
    #48 Yisman, Feb 5, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  9. Yisman

    Yisman Newbie
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    There's no way.

    The Capitals of the last few seasons were stacked with talent and everyone knew it. Even you knew it. Should I quote your posts?

    The team and coach were better in head to head matchups? I guess that part of it I can't argue.
     
  10. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Are you a Pens fan or just a big Crosby fan? Clearly bias. That is fine. I am with Ovechkin too. And I do watch all his games. He is an all world talent I thank God I have been able to witness and enjoy the last 12 years. I can't think of a single playoff series I would blame him for either. He always plays his heart out in the playoffs. The way you disregard him is embarrassing though. That is why @Red Menace asks if you watch hockey because you sound insane putting Ovechkin down and talking Crosby up. People who don't watch hockey do that.
     
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  11. Yisman

    Yisman Newbie
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    I'm not a Penguins fan nor am I a Crosby fan, which is pretty obvious. I never start conversations about the Penguins or Crosby because the Penguins are no more important to me than any other NHL team. I'm a hockey fan, and I watch a lot of hockey.

    You're insanely biased because you've been posting this stuff every season about Ovechkin and Crosby. You're always defending Ovechkin, and I don't know from what, because I haven't seen anyone in the threads (this year or in past years) bashing him. So you're defending him from your own insecurities about him?
     
    #51 Yisman, Feb 5, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  12. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    This all started because the Penguins beat the Capitals 7-4 Friday. Crosby was invisible, Ovechkin had 2 goals and played great, yet lost by 3. So I made that comment and then you went the other way with it. I did not even insult Crosby. Just said he has been in great situations like Brady and Ovechkin has not. The 3 Cup wins by the Pens, all involved beating the Caps on the road to the cup. And each time Crosby wasn't why the Pens won and Ovechkin was not why the Caps lost. Yet people say otherwise. I guess that is why I defend Ovi or feel the need to sometimes.
     
  13. Yisman

    Yisman Newbie
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    I guess you should tell those people all this stuff, then.

    I don't think I could find anyone attacking Ovechkin on these boards and we have NHL threads going back a very long time. Every year you're comparing the two players.
     
  14. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Alright man. I think the 2 players are much closer than you do clearly. Who are you a fan of? Rangers?
     
  15. nyjetsmets89

    nyjetsmets89 Well-Known Member

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    Someone mentioned the Pens survive without Crosby, but that’s only because they hve Malkin who is as elite as you can get in this league and is on an absolute tear right now
     
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  16. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Yes. That is the point. As is Kessel.
     
  17. nyjetsmets89

    nyjetsmets89 Well-Known Member

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    Kessel is above average but not elite. I didn’t expect him to fit in so well with Pitt.

    In regards to Ovechkin, it’s just hard to argue that he’s the guy that can take his team to that next level. He’s a pure goal scorer for sure but time and time again they fall short. Maybe because expectations are so high but that hasn’t stopped toews, Crosby, and prob my favorite pro player Kopitar. Though the Kings greatly benefit from having Anze Doughty and Quick. I digress though...
     
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  18. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    So you say there's no comparison, do you believe that Crosby is a better player than Ovie?
     
  19. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    With regards to your fist paragraph, that's a lie, Crosby has played with excellent seasoned veteran role players in his 3 cup appearances. Billy Guerin, Ruslav Fedotenko, Peter Sykora, Miroslov Satan, Kunitz, those are not junk AHL players, they were tried and true NHL veterans who had star power and experience which helped carry Crosby to his first Cup Victory.

    His second cup had excellent role players players like Phil Kessel, Connor Shearry and Patric Hornqvust, who all scored more than 20 goals during the season, and again gave Malkin and Crosby incredible support as role players on their lines, and again let's not forget Kunitz who had been an important piece of that team as well.

    Who has Ovechkin played with, Joe Ward, Brooks Laich, Jay beagle and his 8 goals.

    If anything your argument should favor Ovechkin, he has played with a bunch of 4th line players his whole career.

    Backstrom, Johansson, Kuznetsov, all have the same deficiencies, I had told @The Dark Knight that the supporting cast for the capitals will be its weakness in the playoffs, and this observation comes from watching a lot of hockey as well, other than Oshie and Ovechkin, the rest of the wingers are not physical enough, they can get away with ballerina hockey during the regular season because the weaker teams are not deep enough to physically wear them down.

    Once capitals are in playoffs, even the Tampa Bay Lightning become a grinding team, Capitals only have 2 grinders and once again it will be their downfall.

    Crosby is not a superior defensive player than Ovechkin, Crosby plays little to no defense, he avoids contact at all cost.

    Ovechkin can go through opponents, around them with power, finesse or speed and he can take hits from any player in hockey, gets back up and continues to play.

    You did dismiss Ovechkin by stating that we should get back to you regarding Ovechkin after Ovechkin has reached a finals let alone win one.


    As I said in my previous post, many great hockey players have not won Stanley Cups and he may go without ever winning one but he will always be better than Crosby.

    If had to choose one player to start building my team, there are 4 players I would select ahead of Crosby.

    Alex Ovechkin
    Evgeny Malkin
    Jonathan Towes
    Stamkos
    Crosby
     
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  20. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Great post.

    Yeah, that is my worry this season too for the Caps. Not physical enough. The Golden Knights were so physical, out worked and outplayed the hell out of them in the 3rd period on Sunday. Also Barry Trotz just does not get it done come playoff time. I like your list, but have to add McDavid. He is fantastic.

    I am not sure how people can't understand the importance of a team in team sports, but they don't. The only sport that matters the least with that is basketball and even then you need solid rosters and coaching to win titles.
     
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