Rank These 4 Quarterbacks (Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield) . . .

Discussion in 'Draft' started by slimjasi, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    No problem. I don't think that at all. I don't mind being questioned or challenged on my opinions, just as I challenge others on theirs. I could be wrong about Falk. I just don't want to wind up with a limited QB again. I loved Chad, but post injuries, our offense was severely limited by his lack of arm strength, and I don't think we'll ever build sustainable success with a QB like that.
     
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  2. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    Tend to agree. It's the sideline passes that determines arm strength in the short game. That is a must for any QB. You can't win games coming from behind in the 4th quarter without that ability, a serious flaw in Pennington's game. However, in comparing throws by Roethlisberger, Eli and others, their deep balls get very little air under them, kind of like line drives. That takes arm strength. If you compare to guys like Pennington and Fitzpatrick their deep balls are like pop ups, often causing the receiver to have to adjust for the ball. They throw a ball in the 1st quarter and it comes down in the 3rd.
     
  3. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    That's priceless...
     
  4. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    Pretty clear I only read half of your post (lol sorry about that), but I am glad that you rehighlighted it for me.

    I guess my argument, is that it is REALLY uncommon for QBs to improve completion percentage from college to NFL.

    Matthew Stanford is a good example, but I view that as a very rare case.

    If we end up taking Josh Allen, I definitely will hope for this very scenario, but I just don’t see that happening.
     
  5. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    I could see that happening. A friend of mine is a big fan of his and wants him to be Jets QB.
     
  6. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    Darnold
    Rosen
    Mayfield
    Jackson
    _______________
    Allen
    Rudolph (Bryce Petty 2.0)

    .
     
    #86 joe, Jan 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  7. xxedge72x

    xxedge72x 2018 Gang Green QB Guru Award Winner

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    In my opinion:

    1) Baker Mayfield
    2) Lamar Jackson
    3) Josh Rosen
    4) Josh Allen
    5) Mason Rudolph
    6) Sam Darnold

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  8. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    The Patriots have already been reported as interested, and I also think they will try to draft him.

    He's a good option for a dink and dunk high percentage throwing offense like NE. For that matter, he's not a bad fit for Morton's offense either.
     
  9. Pepsiguy5

    Pepsiguy5 Active Member

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    I was driving the short drive home yesterday and heard Bart Scott on the radio gushing about Josh Allen. As someone who hopes we get Josh Allen to begin with I guess that was encouraging. It probably doesn't ultimately mean any real insight but it was encouraging.
     
  10. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Because he is so accurate, he really can be a fit for a lot of offenses. For Morton's WCO, he could work but is not ideal because he lacks quick feet and good footwork. He is also limited athletically so that means designed roll outs and bootlegs in the WCO would be underutilized.
     
    #90 legler82, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  11. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    How does a QB that lacks good footwork become the most accurate QB in college football?

    We saw Petty miss guys 10 yards downfield because he is a QB who lacks good footwork.

    Falk does not lack good footwork, he has the best footwork of all the QBs coming out this year.
     
  12. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    it wouldn't be Steve Young's WCO, that's for sure.

    We didn't exactly use many bootlegs this year either tho. I think accuracy is the main key in the WCO, athletic ability just adds more dimensions to it.
    Personally I'm not crazy about the WCO, especially for inexperienced QBs. But I do like Morton so hopefully he is fluid and innovative in approach.
     
  13. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Good footwork "improves" accuracy but it not necessary to have in order to be accurate. I can give you countless examples from either side of the spectrum. Darnold doesn't have great footwork but he is pretty accurate. Allen has good footwork and is not that accurate. Mahomes was pretty accurate as a prospect and his footwork was inconsistent at best. Rodgers has good footwork while not unlike Mahomes routinely throws "accurately" off-platform. Sanchez had great footwork and we know about his accuracy. Imagine how much more inaccurate Sanchez would be if not for his footwork? I can go on and on. Falk is not fleet of foot nor does he have the best footwork in the class IMO but is very accurate. From a mechanics standpoint his accuracy is based on the fact his feet are set properly upon release but the way he gets there is not ideal. I'm sorry but I'm not showing someone a tape of Falk's feet when I'm trying to demonstrate great footwork. I see a lot of shotgun in his NFL future; a heavy dose of him having to make 3-5-7 step drops from center would not be the best utilization of his skills.
     
  14. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    You have to have meet some accuracy threshold to be an effective QB in ANY NFL offense. With that out the way, I, like Bill Walsh, the grandfather of the WCO, believe footwork, more specifically having quick nimble feet [as the necessary footwork can be taught], is the #1 trait to look for in a potential QB for this offense followed by timing and anticipation. If the prospect is also extremely accurate, an elite athlete and/or has upper tier arm talent, that's just gravy. This is why Walsh so loved Montana (a 3rd round pick) coming out of ND when many didn't. Montana, my personal GOAT, completed just 52% of his passes in college but Walsh fell in love with his feet. This is also why he traded for the aforementioned Steve Young who many considered him a bust in Tampa at the time. Young completed just 53% of his passes in Tampa compared to 66% in SF. In the WC the timing of the QB's feet has to be in sync with the WRs routes. If you have lumbering feet [cough...Hackenberg] or bad footwork [cough...Petty], then at the top of your drop or 1st, 2nd, 3rd hitch you may end up missing the passing window for 1-3 reads and thus the play is f*cked.

    BTW, feet and footwork is why I like my avatar, the elite accuracy is a bonus. Groom that kid in a WCO and watch out.
     
  15. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    On the topic of the WCO, I believe this offense was at the root of Sanchez's demise here. It's the offense he ran his entire football life prior to coming to NY. Sanchez was not a natural passer but more a thrower who was product of that offense. From a mechanics standpoint he was well schooled and had the prerequisite quick nimble feet with good footwork. So that offense made him look at lot better than he was. It's not unlike the Spread in that way, though the Spread is even worse. Before the Jets, he was accustomed to a rhythm passing game where he would take a 3, 5 or 7 step drop plant take some extra hitches if needed along the way make his reads and throw to a spot. He couldn't and frankly wasn't good enough, to adjust to anything different. Had the Jets recognized this early and brought in a WCO coach, his story would have been much different.
     
  16. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    Of course there are different examples of players who are exceptions to the rules but speaking of Falk I think his footwork is misleading. He has very soft feet, not lumbering or laboring footwork.

    He doesn't bounce around like he's on a typewriter which I believe is the ideal footwork, which Peyton Manning had.

    I believe he can be successful at the next level, and it scares me that the patriots are looking at him because it means that he is considered good enough by professional scouts and can be a difference maker as an NFL QB.

    I agree with you that he will have to adjust to playing under center, something that may hurt his stock.
     
    #96 Red Menace, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  17. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    I believe he can be successful at the next level too. I just believe he will have better success running an O that's not the WCO.
     
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, anyone the Patriots like should be on Macc's primary target list.
     
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  19. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    The Patsies have established systems and style of play on both sides of the ball. So it's easy to identify the prospects that fit every year. Falk fits perfectly in the Pats offense. We, however, go where ever the wind blows year to year. At the moment we run a WCO based scheme, which is not the best fit for Falk. Then again we are the Jets, it's not out of the question that we have a whole other scheme by the time the draft comes around.
     
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  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    No, I get that...being somewhat "tongue in cheek". I guess what I'd like to see is the Jets adopt a system like the Pats have. It could be their own version or twist, but they need some kind of system, as opposed to their "flavor of the day" or whatever approach they've been using. That's why I keep hoping that the Johnsons would finally hire a Pres. of Football Ops who DOES have a system or philosophy that he could install.
     

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