QB's taken in the first round, instant success or not?

Discussion in 'Draft' started by tbruner12, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,834
    Likes Received:
    3,105
    Nice take son..my sentiments entirely
     
  2. Jetsfansince95

    Jetsfansince95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    3,095
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    It comes down to development at the end of the day and as it usually goes (for the most part) the same teams pick and develop good players over and over and over while others pick at the top of the draft year after year and stay there ):
     
  3. Jetsfansince95

    Jetsfansince95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    3,095
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    For example if we took Dak he would still be riding the bench most likely until year 4 then cut ... picked up by Dallas or the Steelers and succeeds
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  4. TurkJetFan

    TurkJetFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    11,721
    Likes Received:
    973
    How is cam not a fqb? Lost me at that point.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    344
    Since the change in the CBA was 2011 you have guys like Wentz, Goff, Marrieta, Winston, Luck, Newton drafted in the first round. You also have guys like Wilson, Carr, Andy Dalton, Garrapolo, Foles, Cousins, Prescott picked after the first round.

    While it's true the amount of Franchise QB's post CBA is about equal 1st round to later rounds the amount of first round busts who are carried on the books of teams for 4 years is enormous in the first round.

    There are many pro-bowl QB's in NFL history who became pro-bowl QB's on teams that didn't draft them.

    The reason you have to look after the 2011 CBA is it has had an enormous impact on the way players are drafted.
     
    SolidGoldBowles likes this.
  6. shasta01

    shasta01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    85

    That may all be true, it doesn't change the fact that each year the teams that are regularly competing for championships are the ones with the best QB's. Now if you want to argue that you can get a franchise QB in later rounds that's fine, I'll by that. However when yo have the third pick in the draft and haven't had a true franchise QB in 40 plus years, to consider using that pick on anything other than a QB is beyond absurd.
     
  7. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    344
    We haven't had an owner in 40 plus years who could put together a Championship football team. This pick isn't relevant to the NY Jets future Championships. If we luck into a franchise QB like Cousins we probably can sneak into the playoffs once or twice. Championships aren't going to happen. From the neck up this team isn't championship quality. Until that changes your argument is nonsense.
     
  8. shasta01

    shasta01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    85
    Sorry but that is the most idiotic statement I think Ive heard on this board. If this isn't the most important pick to the future success of the Jets, then what pick is or ever will be? You are correct, this team isn't championship quality, it may in fact be border line not NFL quality as it is, but in today's NFL you add a top 10 QB and you're quickly within a couple years of competing for a championship. Add a top 10 RB and you're still a sub 500 team.
     
  9. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    344
    I believe you said the Jets haven't had a franchise QB in 40 years. We had winning teams that actually won playoff games when we had Freeman McNeal, Thomas Jones and Curtis Martin. All 3 were top 10 NFL running backs who the offense was built around.

    We just tried to sign Cousins. He's a franchise QB. Washington lost 1 playoff game in the 4 years he started for them.

    How competitive is Tampa Bay with Winston. Seattle has a franchise QB and is in decline because their D and running attack is deteriorating. The SB was just won with a back up QB beating the best QB of all time. The NFC finals, a division loaded with QB's had two backups competing to go to a SB.
     
    TwoHeadedMonster and tbruner12 like this.
  10. shasta01

    shasta01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    85
    Clear exceptions to the rule don't win an argument. Foles stepped into the perfect situation on a hot team, also on the back of the franchise QB that got them there. Look, 16 of the last 20 Super Bowels were won by teams with legit Franchise QB's. No matter how convoluted your argument, you can't argue away the simple fact that having a Franchise QB has the most direct and impact full correlation to a teams winning percentage. You can list all the outliers you like, it doesn't change the numbers.
     
  11. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    7,388
    Likes Received:
    1,540
    I used to call Byron Leftwich Mr. Chubbs. Very intriguing post tbruner12, it must've take a lot of effort. I'm not entirely sure what you meant by 'instant success', though (?). Aaron Rodgers sat on the bench for three years because Favre was being a punk about retiring. I'm not nit-picking whatsoever, to be clear, it was a very insightful post that I enjoyed reading; but out of all of those guys, I would say Rodgers would have had literal 'instant success'. JMO.
     
    #91 jetophile, Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    tbruner12 likes this.
  12. tbruner12

    tbruner12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    362
    I guess our difference is you believe all the hype on this class. I do not.
    Believe what you want.
    2 of the 4 won't be FQB's at all, maybe none. Rosen looks the best but has issues.
    This class is way over rated. Period.
     
    TwoHeadedMonster likes this.
  13. tbruner12

    tbruner12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    362
    Extremely intelligent post!
    Picking a top QB won't help this team until the staff and system is in place and working. Then pieces can be added to help us be competitive every year. The QB jock straps who believe that taking a high pick and gambling on a QB with question marks, problems solved in a couple years are silly. Ron White said it....... You just can't fix stupid.
    1/3 of the 16 Super Bowls won by so called FQB's are Brady. A 6th round pick who had everything around him to succeed, and carried him to 3 Superbowls while he got his HOF legs under him. How many has he won and lost while carrying the team?

    Bridgewater/McCown and Barkley will allow our team and system to develope until we are in a position to look for a so called FQB.
    Until the staff and system is fixed, a QB won't help us anymore than what we are. We pick the wrong QB, which is highly likely considering the shape of the team at this point, will set us back a long time. Barkley will help the team as a playmaker. We need TD's not completions, regardless.
    Who knows we may already have our QB for the next 5-10 years on our roster. Barkley will help the entire offense. None of these QB's will help this team now or for the foreseeable future. All the Madden players believe all we need is a FQB to fix the team. What a joke.
    Maybe we should have traded our draft and current owner away to the Pats for Kraft?
    It's pointless to argue with these dumb dumbs. They have no clue what makes a team good.
    We had a FQB in Sanchez, high pick and all. What did he do for our team that was a McCown 2017 performance away from a couple Super Bowls?
     
  14. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    3,337
    Likes Received:
    207
    The Jets need consistency at the quarterback position, not these 1-2 year fill-ins. TB could be the guy but he sounds as iffy as a draft pick right now.

    Moving to 3 reeks of drafting for need. We need a QB. This is one of those times were you don’t necessarily look at every individuals peek potential, but rather what their specific abilities can bring to the table for the team as a whole.

    QB’s have significantly more responsibility than RB’s, which is why they’re so highly valued. When the opportunity to fill that void for the next 10 years seems better then most other times, you take it.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  15. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    6,802
    Likes Received:
    2,045
    I don't claim to be a guru by any stretch, but this is my general feeling as well
     
  16. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    1,952
    depends what you consider a franchise QB? there is no clear definition.

    the stats are also skewed because brady won 4 of them. that's 20% of superbowls over the past 20 years to 1 QB. Flacco got one but isn't really a FQB in my eyes. eli won 2 and i feel the same about him as i do flacco. the eagles just won with a back-up QB.

    I'm not saying you are wrong about QB importance, just saying that it's not a requirement to win a SB, but it sure as shit, helps a lot.
     
    tbruner12 likes this.
  17. EnunwaFan

    EnunwaFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    I hate to say this, but you're selling Brady short. He's won 5 Super Bowls over the last 17 years.
     
    SolidGoldBowles likes this.
  18. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    1,952
    LMAO fucking google. i thought it was 5 so i googled to check and it said 4
     
  19. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    4,302
    You realize there's a chance Barkley turns out to be overrated?
     
  20. shasta01

    shasta01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    85

    Really??? You are actually claiming that the stats showing 16 of the last 20 Super Bowl wining teams had franchise QB's, are skewed, because a "FRANCHISE QB WON 5 OF THEM???? If anything that proves the point!!!
     

Share This Page