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Discussion in 'Draft' started by JethroTull, Jan 4, 2017.
It would've taken years for Walsh to get him there. You know the system Walsh ran right?
I disagree. Walsh was a genius, and would've created a system to utilize Mahomes's strengths.
Walsh had HIS system and would have tried to make Mahomes a west coast QB, there is no run and shoot, no Air Raid offense that's not what Walsh's offense brought to the table. With his awful mechanics it would've taken seasons to get him ready ala Steve Young who needed major mechanic fixes.
Walsh while he was a genuis was also a perfectionist. No chance Mahomes sees the field for at least 2 seasons.
If Walsh didn't make adjustments to allow Mahomes to get up to speed more quickly, then he's not the genius I thought he was.
Gruden also thought Nassib was the best QB in the 2013 draft, Connor Cook last year. He has also at times thought Chris Simms would be special, thought Manziel with a year on the bench could be the next Steve Young. Gruden has been wrong much more than he has been right. Entertaining, sure. Someone you want to entrust with your next QB pick, not so much. Just hope he was right about Hack but wouldn't put money on it.
Read this great piece by Doug Farrar, who sat down with Mahomes and watched film with him. It's awesome. This isn't just another air raid QB, bring him to me.
latest projection have him drafted in the middle of the 1st round, with the worst or best case being KC at #27.
I'm hoping at this point the Jets can trade down and still get this kid. You can't move down that far if you want him because another team will leap frog us for him.
The kid can throw strikes downfield on his knees....
SIGN THIS FREAK
He's on my short list but isn't the be all end all...I've gotten burnt & have had too many lousy April weekends in my time to get my heart set on one player only to have the Jets go defense..AGAIN..
On the one hand..as with any player...you'd love to be able to trade down & still get the guy. But...conversely....if you think he's a franchise type QB...which I wholeheartedly do...there should really be no hesitation even at 6.
I will die on this hill.
Look at the play Gruden highlights at 18:50. He recognizes the coverage, audibles into a play that can take advantage of it, holds the free safety with his eyes while sliding to his left to avoid pressure and makes a great throw. What else could you want?
Ideally, I would love to see the Jets take Fournette or Howard at 6 and then grab Mahomes or Watson with their second pick, but based upon the things I've read and heard, Mahomes and Watson won't even last to the bottom of the 1st round, so if they want one of these guys they'll have to take him before that with their 1st pick. They could trade down of course and gamble, but again, if they believe one of these guys (or Trubisky or one of the other guys) is their FQB, that's a big gamble. Also, based upon the chart I posted in the thread "Average Draft Position of Starters", the success rate of QBs drops tremendously past the 1st round. As ConcordeChops pointed out in that thread though this rate might be self-fulfilling: GMs and coaches have a huge investment in a 1st round pick and usually do everything they can to ensure they succeed. Of course, this could be a strong argument for taking a QB with your 1st pick, but at the same time why GMs may be too leery of failure to take a QB in the 1st round.
So, adding it all up, IMO, the Jets need a better QB than they have, and Mahomes and Watson fit that criteria, so they should take one of them in the first round. Ideally, they can trade down with Cleveland to 12 and get one of them, and also get their 1st pick in the 2nd round which is almost like another 1st rounder. But if they can't trade down, then take Mahomes preferably, or Watson at 6.
If the Jets take a QB on the 6 they need to know he's the guy they're going to live and die with and that starts this season. We have plenty of developmental projects in house, adding another more high priority one isn't going to fix anything.
I agree. If they don't think whoever they pick can start at some point this year, then don't waste the pick on him.
Brett Favre who I've said since day one this kid reminds me of as a prospect played in the WCO for his entire career except for his short stints with the Falcons and Jets. By the way Gruden and others who coached Favre say the same thing.
"You [Mahomes] got more talent than 99% of the guys I've met"
The Jets have said, they're going to run a WCO, Here's an article that describes in basic terms, what a WCO is about:
I'll cut and paste one aspect of the article:
Key Player Types
Typical players in a WCO are:
Quarterback: Mobile, accurate passer who makes good decisions. Does not have to have the strongest arm, since short passes are the key.
Who comes to mind? Not Mahomes.
If the above description is true, then the guy is most fits in this draft class is Watson. I prefer Mahomes, but if the Jets really are going to run a WCO, is he really the best fit? And would they change their approach if the decided Mahomes is the best QB?
Mahomes is mobile, accurate makes good decisions or at the very least makes as good decisions as Watson does. Having a strong arm is not a requirement for the WCO but it also doesn't mean strong arm QBs can't run it (see Favre and Rodgers). If we want to talk about poor fits for the WCO we should be talking about Hackenberg.
I didn't say Mahomes was a poor fit, and in fact, I tend to agree that he could play in a WCO. I'm just pointing out that the guy in this draft that fits the description I pasted would be Watson, and I wonder if that's who the Jets are actually targeting. And yes, Hackenberg doesn't seem like a very good fit at all.
But as NC said, why not adopt the system to the QB's strengths. not force-fit the QB into the system? If you read the whole article it mentions that the WCO was actually originally tied to the Air Coryell system, and both of these have been adapted into different "Air Raid" systems, so I don't think it would be a big stretch for Mahomes to adapt to some hybrid of these systems that could be tailored to him. Given his physical attributes, and his ability to create, these are two things any QB the Jets use behind their mediocre OL has to have..
I really hope they take Mahomes, but if they took Watson, maybe they could maximize his ability using a WCO.