No playmakers, bad OL, no QB, terrible HC

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Longsuffering88, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    While our personalities are markedly different, and we often disagreed in the past, in spite of your frequent sarcasm, I always had a grudging respect for your knowledge and for not being a poster who gave in to emotion, rash moves, and impatience with the Jets. I'm truly surprised that you have joined ranks with some of the clueless, impatient posters we have.

    Your posts in this thread have been ridiculous and not your norm. If your name hadn't been on the post I responded to, I would have thought it was someone else, not you. How can you think that Mac is so awful and yet say that he shouldn't be fired.

    It's amazing the facts that you ignore, yet try to claim that your opinions are indisputable facts.

    We all know what a clueless moron Woody is and how he interferes. We know that Woody hired Bowles, not Mac. We know about the the screwy org chart where Bowles and Mac are peers and both report to Woody, and that Woody is too readily influenced by who he likes best at the moment or whom gets his ear at the right time. We also all know that it takes at least 3 years to judge draft picks accurately.

    Do you seriously think that Bowles would have been in favor of a complete rebuild when he was hired? With Woody's clamoring for the playoffs, do you seriously think Woody would have listened to any GM and gone with a complete rebuild in Mac's and Woody's first year, especially with Bowles probably against it?

    We all knew (or should have) that when Mac took over it was going to take years to turn things around. That there was little or no depth, that the offense had been ignored, that there was little team speed, few playmakers, and holes all over the roster.

    Hardly any of Idzik's draft picks were still on the roster, and we had too many old, over-the-hill players who were complacent. They may have been more of a known quantity and more experienced, but they weren't more talented or fast than the team we have now. A team doesn't get immediately better when it does a complete rebuild/youth movement. Anyone who has ever watched NFL football for more than a year knows that. Sometimes a team has to get worse before it can get better. It takes 2-3 years at a minimum to turn things around. Young teams often have to learn how to win.

    WE all know how important the QB is to winning. Mac didn't have the opportunity to draft Mariota or Winston. Paxton Lynch, whom some here thought Mac should have drafted, is sucking in Denver. Unless Trubisky, Mahomes, or Watson pan out, Mac didn't have any franchise QBs drop in his lap like Idzik did and then ignored them. Mac did as well as could be expected considering the makeup of the players in the drafts that Mac has been in charge of. Hack is only 22, is showing progress and has a great football IQ and cannon for an arm. He's worth the investment and patience with.

    You also conveniently have forgotten that his first year here, he had to deal with Bradway and the previous scouting dept. that had sucked so badly. After that draft he changed personnel in the scouting dept. and the drafts have been better. Also, all young rookie GMs struggle somewhat and have to learn on the job.

    Mac drafts the players. It's up to Bowles and his CS to coach and develop the players, put them in positions to succeed, get them prepared to play, craft sound game plans, and then win the games. Their sub-500 record is all on Bowles and his CS. There is talent on this team. Bowles hasn't disciplined the players and held them accountable, he hasn't had them prepared to play, with a few exceptions, his game plans have been awful, his in-game adjustments (really lack thereof) have been practically non-existent, and his game and clock management have been abysmal. He's been more concerned with keeping his job than developing the young players that Mac has drafted.

    No one is saying that Mac is great or deserves the HOF, but he did get an award from his peers in the NFL his first year with the team for the job he had done. Wolff and Casserley highly recommended Mac. I trust their judgment more than anyone's here (including my own).

    I think I have been very fair in my evaluation of Mac. It takes any young GM some time. Even experienced GMs make mistakes. He is far from perfect, but he's the best GM we've had in decades, and one of the best the Jets have ever had, although that's not saying much. Ron Wolff wasn't perfect, neither was Charlie Casserley. Two of the best GMs presently in the NFL, Colbert in Pittsburgh and Newsome in Baltimore have made more than their share of mistakes as has Reggie McKenzie in Oakland.

    We'll never know for certain, unless Mac or Woody speak out, whether it was of his own accord or Woody's insistence, but it appears that Mac has bent over backwards trying to accommodate and help Bowles by giving him the defensive players he has wanted.

    I've criticized Mac when I think he has made mistakes, like practically ignoring the OL, and giving Bowles what he wants too much and continuing to ignore the offense. I've questioned his insistence on taking the BPA seemingly without considering need. I questioned his continual trading down in the draft this year and for taking Safeties back-to-back in the 1st and 2nd rounds. If he fails to seriously address the OL in FA and in the 2018 draft, I will criticize him severely for that, and seriously question whether he should stay. If neither Petty nor Hack prove give very strong evidence this season that he is our FQB, the Jets wind up with a top 2 pick, and Mac then fails to take a QB if there is a topflight QB there, then I will want him fired.

    He may ultimately fail, but I think has been a lot better in his job than Bowles has in his, and unless a lot of the young players he has added wind up as busts, has done enough good to earn the benefit of the doubt for another year, maybe two.
     
    #61 NCJetsfan, Aug 12, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017 at 10:55 AM
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  2. FJF

    FJF Well-Known Member

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    sorry bro, most of what you said here is either speculation of what you think woody did or projecting macs errors on to bowles. bottom line is, like i have been saying, mac is responsible for the roster, there is nothing that has happened the last 3 years that says mac should get another 3-4 years like the o.p stated. nothing. that may change, ad barring a 0-16 record i don't think he should be fired yet but i am still not calling him a good g.m. like many on here,including you, seem to think he is. better than idzic? through 2 drafts score card is pretty close, though i may give him the edge.maybe. better than tanny? not even close t this point. tanny through 2 years had drafted 2 potential h.o.f. players and 2 more that are sure fire ring of honor jets and the arrow was pointing up. anyone is better than bradway so he gets that. but as of now,like i have been arguing the whole time. 3 years in and the roster is no better than when he came. sorry if i have a hard time finding the good in that.
     
  3. forevercursed

    forevercursed Well-Known Member

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    McGuire looks like a playmaker

    Robby Anderson...sure as hell made a play today.
     
  4. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    I could say your underrating them. lets not forget that every pick he's made has been in the NFL at most 2 seasons. Not really enough to call anyone a bust. some only played 1 season
     
  5. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    LMAO always gonna be angry fans like that. I wouldn't say i overrated anyone, more like I'm optimistic about their potential
     
  6. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i fucked that part up. still that makes it look even much better for mac since 2014 was the only shit draft of the bunch
     
  7. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    Nah it was FJF i was talking to
     
  8. FrontOfficeFanatic

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    Casserly made a great point recently that a HC can't be judged on their record, but rather their ability to maximize the talent and ability of the roster. In my opinion, Bowles first year has to be considered a solid one at that--he won with deficiencies at the QB position, the secondary and pass rush. Offensive line was suspect as well. The second year we were littered with injuries and age crept on some of our most pivotal pieces. This year, the front office has decided to go a different direction and tear down our roster at its core. Our defense looks to have more talent and youth, with that comes some misstakes. In order to evaluate what we have in TB, we need to evaluate what he has to work with. If our young defensive pieces improve over the year, our defense looks sound and our younger players play with vigor....I think that will say a lot about how good TB is. If our younger players stay stagnant, our defense is chock full of busted coverages and our players give up in games...I think that gives us our answer as well. If our draft picks from the MM administration don't start producing, it might turn our attention to another man in the room as well. This year is all about the details in my opinion, the overall record and even scores wont tell the whole story. Just my opinion....
     
  9. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Of course a HC can't be judged solely based on their record, but it shouldn't be ignored, either. One needs to look at the factors that caused that record, but also at the things he does well or doesn't do well. IMO Bowles has been pretty damn sorry. Teams can win in spite of their HC. Barry Switzer and the Cowboys is a perfect example. Teams can also lose in spite of their HC due to low talent level, injuries, little depth, complacent players with poor attitudes, etc.

    Overall, imo Bowles has done a poor job preparing the team to play. More often than not, the game plans were bad, were poorly executed, the team was flat, with no sense of urgency or passion, and didn't seem to know what they were doing. Bowles in-game adjustments were non-existent. That could have been due to lack of depth and the talent level, but the blame for that goes primarily on Idzik, Tanny, Bradway, the previous scouting Dept, and Woody, and much less Mac. Bowles has been almost as poor as Rex in terms of holding players accountable and discipline. I think they have been better in terms of not committing dumb penalties, but that's about it. Bowles game and clock management also suck. Those are all things that would torpedo even the best of teams.
     
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  10. FJF

    FJF Well-Known Member

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    And that's why I haven't called for him to fired but also why he shouldn't be considered a good gm yet and shouldn't be given 3-4 more years at this moment. Which is what I have been saying from page 1.
    I mean this thread was started with a list of problems that all fall under the gm's responsibilities and then days we should give him 3-4 more years.
     
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  11. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    again it's been 2 years. this was his 3rd draft so far. he took over a team that sucked. sold out the cap to make a push. we did well at 10-6 but fell short, then had to blow it up and rebuild. You can't call him a bad GM until he has 2-3 more years to see this rebuild through. You also have to give him time to find a QB.
     
  12. FJF

    FJF Well-Known Member

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    Show me where I said anything other than he is not a good gm yet.
     
  13. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    Mac might end up whiffing on the 2015 draft completely outside of the obvious Williams pick. LZ ain't looking good and I hope Simon steps up. 2016 is really going to hurt if Hack and Lee don't step up. He caved and resigned Fitz. Gave Revis a bunch of cash, cut a bunch of vets at a bad time. I won't get on his case about the offensive line yet, he hasn't had the time to really develop that. Gotta agree with FJF, he's not a good gm right now. I guess it is better to be lucky then good [Williams and Adams]
     
  14. sec314

    sec314 Well-Known Member

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    If we're a good team and made the playoffs Bowles would lose a game against a top notch coach like herm did against tbe steelers so good or bad team our coach can't manage a game
     
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  15. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Herm beat Dungy and Marty Schottenhiemer in the playoffs.

    In my book both of those guys are better than Cowher.

    I don't disagree with your point, but I very much disagree with your example.
     
  16. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    i would but I'm not going to sift through a million one liner posts to do so lol you never say anything, that's the issue you "hit and run" a negative comment
     
  17. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    I think he deserves some credit for anderson, peake, J marshall, jenkins etc. The draft isn't all about your top picks. Seattle had 9 picks in the 2010 draft. 5 were busts but they did land okung, thomas, tate, and chancellor. that was probably one of the bets drafts i seen in a bit. Any "good" GM will walk away from a draft with 2-3 good players. You can't expect much more.
     
  18. FJF

    FJF Well-Known Member

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    You won't because you won't find one. You are confusing me calling him not good with me calling him bad. And then going on to argue how he is good by calling his draft picks,ones that you concede are to early to call bad, as good. Which I am telling you,except for Leonard,are too early to call good and in some cases the returns don't look as promising as you would like to admit.i think most on this board understood what I was saying, but there it is all spelled out for you.
     
  19. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't the spending of $50M in cap space right when he came on board, on players past their prime or never in their prime, be on Mac? The team was not close after a 4-12 season so throwing money at it was the wrong move, instead of realizing right then it needed to be torn down to be built back up. That put the team back 2 years.
     
  20. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    Possibly. The thing is you don't know what woody was pushing. from what i gather mac had to sell him on a full rebuild. Woddy could have told him to do what he can to field a competitive team and make a push. I mean he is trying to sell tickets and PSLs. Much like jerry jones and dan snyder and al davis who kept pushing the GM into bad decisions then firing their GMs for bad results.

    So yeah it could have been mac's fault, or it could have been woody telling him what to do. we will never know for sure. But the fact that we are going a full rebuild, mac deserves a chance to see it through. it's really what's best for the franchise
     

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