Who are all of those ex-Jets who thrived with other teams after leaving the Jets? I can only think of James Farrior and Jeremy Kerley, and in Kerley's case, it's only because SF doesn't have much talent at WR.
Agreed and those players were all under different regimes. Too many folks are passing judgment way too early .. what happened to correctly evaluating a draft after three years? Two at the earliest .. but is too early. Frankly, if your draftees are even positively contributing in year one, to me, is a successful draft, especially when those contributions come from prospects drafted after the 4th round or from UDFA. Year two, you should see improvement barring injuries. Year three is where you really start to see the player you truely have. IMO, we are just scratching that surface with this regime. This upcoming season and its youth movement will bring us some real facts.
But what if one or more of them shows they can't cut it? Out of Petty, Hack, and McCown there's a decent chance that could happen, then what? Everyone now says, "Well if the worst happens they'll just lose a lot of games and have a top 1,2, or 3 pick", but as the losses mount and it gets uglier and uglier, how many are going to be screaming for a change in QB with no QB to change to? It would've been prudent to have 4 QBs going into TC and then settle on the best 3 to go forward. Obviously Macc didn't think so, but I still think it was the way to go.
What if one or more of them can't cut it? The Jets aren't expecting to win much this year anyway. If they can't cut it, then the Jets will know and can move on next year and not wonder. As a bonus, they should have excellent draft position with which to draft their new QB. Who cares if a few clueless losers whine about losses or what they scream for? Certainly not me, and neither should Mac nor Bowles. This year isn't about seeing how many games they can win. It's about giving young players a chance, seeing who can help them going forward and developing them. Nothing else matters this season. I totally disagree that it would have been prudent to have 4 QBs going into TC. IMO, it would have been a totally stupid move. It would have limited the reps that the Jets current 3 QBs would have received, and would have hampered their chances of development. In fact, imo it would have done more to insure that neither Petty nor Hack developed and succeeded this year than any other move they could have made. When Petty had few reps last season with the starters, and Hack had none, and one of their biggest needs is to get reps, how would adding another QB to the mix have helped?
I think that's the whole concept .. can any of the young QB's cut it. IMO the last thing they need to do is replicate the way the reps were distributed last year in any way, shape or form. This TC should only be about Pettenberg in regards to the QB position and max reps need to be allotted. I think this is Petty's stay or nay year and Hackenberg's proof of value year. The fans and whatever they scream need to be ignored as they need to stick with and see the process through all the way to the end of the season. If bad play leads to a QB change, I think three quarterbacks is plenty enough to suffice that scenario. My ideal scenario would be to see enough out of Pettenberg to keep one as their 2018 starter, and draft a QB in rounds 2-4. If our record nets us a top 5 pick .. it should be traded. If the Pettenberg projects completely bomb, we draft a QB in round 1, but I think Hackenberg would indeed have to enormously look completely hopeless.
I get what you're saying, and it certainly has merit - in any case, the die is cast. BUT...a 38 year old QB, a completely unproven QB, and a QB who has limited experience and is coming off a major injury. The odds are pretty good one or more will bite the dust before the season is over. What if they had drafted Mahomes, and gave him limited reps at first, but pending seeing what Petternberg and McCown do, if necessary they drop one of the "losers" or injured and bring Mahomes into the mix? Obviously it's a done deal now, but I'm just pointing out how it might've worked and been good insurance.
Too bad they didnt draft him He is better than Hack and Petty..I am not sure we would keep all 3 though Plus I am not sure bout our new CS yet if they could help PM But itwas a political thing for Mack ..you dont grab another QB a year after a QB at the second round Mac already has egg on his face with so many miscues/contracts ...draft another project? The kid is better off with one of the best coaches out there in KC with Andy Reid
I could be wrong of course, but I can't see that scenario working in any circumstances. To begin with, I don't think they will find out that quickly that Petty or Hack can't cut it. Sometimes it takes times for things to click or come together. So, imo in that scenario, Mahomes would have received no reps all season. For arguments' sake, lets say that the Jets did draft Mahomes, Petty won the starting job in TC, but then played horribly once the season began. Should they give up on him after a couple of starts? 4 starts? 6? How soon is too soon? What then? Do they cut him for struggling, even though he won the job in TC? What if it wasn't even close between Hack and he, and the Jets had made the decision to go with their young QBs and only play McCown in case both Petty and Hack fell flat on their faces. If Mahomes was given limited reps, he wouldn't have had a chance to win the starting job, so that means that the Jets should then turn to Hack for a number of games, and if struggles/falls on his face, then they should turn to McCown. After all, if Mahomes got limited reps in TC, there's no way he would be ready to play, and if they played him without many reps, they'd be throwing him to the wolves just as they did Petty last year, and he would have little or no chance of succeeding. It couldn't have been insurance imo. Insurance against what? A rookie QB isn't going to help in the scenario you suggested. Chances are that he'd never see the field. He isn't going to give them more solid play than QBs who have been in the league. He isn't going to give the team more wins. All he would do is wind up making things more confusing, and hindering Petty's and Hack's progress.
again, my original point was that denver spent a 7th round pick to redshirt a guy. we used a 2nd round pick to do the same thing. check out all the records kelly got while a qb at ole miss against the last 3 years for hackenberg at penn state. given a choice, elway's strategy looks a lot better right now than mac's.
We had a number of OLs to boot; Randy Thomas, and then Kareem McKenzie. Is that all? Hell no. We had a certain DL named Hugh Douglas that was kept in the dog pen simply because the HC hated him. [Fuck Parcells.] He left the Jets and had a productive career with the Eagles. If you go back further, you will find this cornerback named James Hasty. And yes, Farrior won him a SB ring with Steelers. And don't even get me started with Jon Vilma. [Fucking Mangina.] Did we have good replacements after these guys? HELL FUCKING NO. After Randy Thomas bolted, we all know how hard Jets FO tried to fill the guard spot. We had to sign the likes of Pete Kendall and see him disrupt the locker room later, bolting for more cash. Hugh Douglas - Ok. After Hugh, and John Abraham, we just didn't have 10-sack pass rusher UP UNTIL NOW. [Mo Wilkerson broke through a short while ago - that was the only saving grace.] Of course, we should pay equal attention to the offense too, eh? We of course have WRs; Laveranues Coles and Santana Moss. [Coles did return to us, but then his price was jacked up to the heavens.] Also we have this RB named Danny Woodhead. In a more traditional mold, Lamont Jordan looked promising, and did perform somewhat with the Raiders later. See that? This is just the past decade alone. For this reason, I refuse to believe that Jets scouting department is bad. If they truly are, then ex-Jets should not thrive after their Jets days, which is just not the case. I am more or less convinced that Jets coaching staff has been pretty disastrous for the better part of seasons past 2000. If this still doesn't hit you in the head, consider this: Ex-Jet SB winners that won their rings AFTER leaving the Jets: Kareem McKenzie James Farrior Jonathan Vilma ======================================================== P.S. I repeat. It is not the problem of the drafting. It's the problem of the coaching staff. So I really don't give it a rat's ass if this front office decided not to roll the dice with QB prospects this year. Different managements, with different coaching strengths will deem same prospect differently - that's only natural. If I had to give more weight, I'd be siding with the front office and scouts, instead of the coaching staffs. [Sadly, it takes BOTH to be a good franchise. That's where the "Denver would look at THIS dude for 7th!!" argument fails.]
There's enough failure to spread around to everyone in the organization, beginning of course with the owner. But I do agree that the coaching has been a decades long failure, with only a few, short exceptions. To me this is due to the lack of a truly knowledgeable football guy in charge of operations. When you have owners like the Maras and Rooneys, and a few other long term football-savvy owners, you might not need a Pres. or VP of Football Operations, but with an owner like Woody, and before him Hess, you do. A guy who knows the NFL and football can find the right GMs, coaches, and staff. Obviously the Jets have lacked this for decades. Even now, if Macc and Bowles disagree, who makes the tiebreaker? Woody (or now his brother) who doesn't know enough to make that kind of choice? No matter who they draft or sign, it's not going to change the dysfunction of this franchise.
Thanks. I had forgotten about all those players. I don't remember all the circumstances or what the cap was like for those players, but remember that I was upset that some of them left, but not others. I will say that Hugh Douglas was the biggest loss imo, and was a stupid loss, all because Parcells was/is an asshole. IMO Thomas and McKenzie were the next biggest losses. I don't remember the circumstances under which McKenzie left, but remember that Thomas got greedy and wanted more than the Jets thought he was worth or maybe could afford to pay. Didn't he become the highest-paid OG in the NFL after signing that contract with the Redskins? I don't think Hasty was a big loss. He was pretty good, but as I remember it, he got burned a lot as well. He'd make a great play, and then make a bad one, and was inconsistent. I was glad to see Abraham go. He couldn't stay healthy and wouldn't play with any type of injury. He was soft. I know you won't agree, but I always thought that Vilma wasn't that good a fit in our defensive system. The system the Saints used was a better fit for him. If he had stayed here, I'm not sure he would have been as good as he was on the Saints. I can't remember why Coles and Moss left, but I wasn't upset by Moss' leaving. I always thought he dogged it a little and ran out of bounds too quickly. I remember wanting taller and tougher WRs. Woodhead should never have left, but Jordan was no big loss imo. He had a good season or so here, and I think only 1 or 2 decent seasons on the Raiders. He was lazy and didn't work hard to maximize his talent. He should have been a great RB with his size, speed and power, but wasn't. At any rate, I agree with you regarding our CSs, but that's what happens when you have an absolutely clueless owner who continually hires one rookie HC after another, and who won't hire a professional to run the football organization.
Vilma was primarily the MLB of a 4-3 defense, - and a really good one at that, mind you - which Mangini had no intention of running. So he tried hammering Vilma into Jack role [He was too small to be a Ted] and naturally Vilma failed to impress; later he got injured. ["Failed to impress" might be a bit too strong, since while his production fell off quite a bit - 169 to 103 - but he did register 100+ tackles in his first year with Mangini.] In 4-3, MLBs are the QB of the defense, so he aligns the front 7 and alerts the backfield. Once the DL funnels the run toward the MLB, he finishes up the job. Even during passing downs, his primary job is not to go after the QB; that's what DEs are for. Jack in 3-4 are nothing like Mike in 4-3. [Think Ted Bruschi. When Vrabel and his DL eat up the blockers, he'd go in as a delayed blitzer for instance. There are some similarities, but they are not quite the same.] So - there you have it. When Vilma tagged along, he was voted the DROY. THEN HE UPPED HIS ROOKIE PERFORMANCE WITH 160+ TACKLES THE NEXT SEASON. He was not a bad player. PERIOD. Just he didn't fit with what Mangini was trying to do. Say what you will, but Mangini is a fuckoff, and a weasel. Good coaches put their players in a position to succeed. I have never seen a good HC hammering square peg into round hole. Once Mangini tagged along, Jets have been 3-4 team ever since. Rex Ryan knows how to make use of 4 down linemen as his base defense, but he also knows how to thrive with 3-4; so he didn't have to "throw away" the talents Jets D have accumulated over the years, a la Mangini. P.S. If this doesn't give you a reason to hate that Man-weasel, consider that Mangini railroaded the franchise with Vernon Gholston pick as well. What a fuckoff. P.S.2. Abraham was actually very good investment for Jets. He did have solid production as a Jet, then left the Jets with 29th pick overall, which turned into Nick Mangold. Kevin Mawae became a locker room cancer by then, and had to be shitcanned, so I don't complain about losing Abraham. [Yes. One of the few good things Mangini did with Jets.]
What I remember about Vilma (and to be fair, my memory may be a bit hazy) is that yes, he made a lot of tackles, but many, if not most of them, were 5-10 yards downfield. I remember that many of us on the Jets' fan site on which I was posting at the time thought the same way. At the time, we thought Mangini was going to be a very good, if not great, HC. Of course, over time it was revealed that he wasn't even a good HC because he was so anal and micro-managing, and Vilma went on to be a stud with the Saints. I don't blame Vilma since he was playing out of position and having to learn a new alignment and different responsibilities. As I said, he just wasn't a good fit for what Mangini wanted to do on D. Don't forget that Mangini also gave us the boar hunter. LOL
Ok - a few things I missed above: 1. 3-4 MLBs have to be good with their hands - since they should be able to shed the blockers and make play. This is something Vilma never had to do before Mangini. 2. Vilma's tackling a few yards downfield is directly because of this; in his rookie year, he had Jason Ferguson in front, eating up the blockers. Ferguson had a very good career as a NT, but he left the team after 2004 season. Who did we have for the NT position then? *Gulp!* Dslob. Yeah. That tepid tub of lard couldn't get much done up front. Sione Pouha just tagged along, and was learning his crafts in 2005 [or for the better part of the decade] so wasn't much help. This is when you saw Vilma's tackling came a few yards downfield. [Yeah - Dslob is another of the Herm/Bradway disaster. Boy, I miss "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME" days. Yuck.]
Ironically enough the team right now is a MLB away from a 4-3 D. They're playing D.Lee out of position at 3-4 ILB when he should be a 4-3 WLB. Not to mention the abundance of DL talent that forces Richardson to play 3-4 OLB. I would take a good hard long look at Demario Davis and all the UDFA guys to try and find that 4-3 MLB. I think the following D would be pretty damn good: LDE: Mo LDT: Richardson RDT: Leo RDE: Mauldin SLB: Jenkins MLB: Davis??? WLB: Lee LCB: Claiborne SS: Adams FS: Maybe RCB: Burris
I disagree. In addition to MLB, imo they don't have a 4-3 DE on the roster. Mo would be a DT, not a DE. Mauldin isn't good or fast enough.
I agree about Mauldin but not with Mo. When the Jets play 4 man fronts under Bowles, which has been quite a lot, its Mo at LDE and he's done pretty well there. Last year was an aberration for him, except for the 1st game, no matter the front, hopefully due to his ankle. In that 1st game against the Bengals the D-line was ferocious. They started in a 4-3 and played mostly 4 man fronts the entire game with Mo (LDE), Leo (LDT), McLendon (RDT) and Thomas (RDE...Sheldon was suspended). The Bengals had 57 yards rushing and gave up 7 sacks. Unfortunately Revis and the secondary sucked balls that game. I'm not sure who besides Mauldin would play RDE. Donahue has really short arms and small hands. Maybe Bishop? Sheldon has played there in the past as well.
