I don't think the Jets should take him with their 2nd pick, but EJ will mostly likely go in the 2nd round. Hell, I've been saying it for weeks that I think he will be the best QB to come out of this class when all is said and done.
Kurt, first off not all of 'the majority' were gaga over Gholston. NFL (the poster) "Patriot Fear" quote below addresses that (more on that later). No one's is debating having home run weapons on offense what with the college spread offense becoming more commonplace in the pros, etc., but it still doesn't diminish the need for guys (in this case, not good but great guys) to keep a QB on his feet so as to get the ball to a flashy WR or RB let alone provide a push (or the ability to pull) for those playmakers. Further, receivers are no "plug-in" guarantees either. Recent 1st round drafts are littered with 1st round (and top 10) flashy WR busts and I'm not including Hayward-Bey who seems to have only now, years later, started to come out of his fog: Sylvester Morris, RJ Soward, Freddie Mitchell (picked before Reggie Wayne), Ashley Lelie (picked over Ed Reed). Top 10 picks: David Terrell (#8), Reggie Williams (#9). Detroit who owns the best receiver in the game, has a rocket armed QB and a nasty (if retarded) DL didn't do much aside from watching Megatron set a receiving record to cap off their losing season. Moreover, before the Lions finally hit paydirt with Megatron they pretty much missed with two other WR top 10 picks in Mike Williams (#10) and Charles Johnson (#2). That's a 33% success rate and again, we're talking high 1st round picks, not reaches. Guys like Warmack are not mearly about "trenches vs. playmakers" he's also in the "best football player available" conversation--he's that good (and one who excelled against the best college comp). I'll take BPA over 'needs' anyday and heaven knows we have needs, lots of needs on both sides of the ball that will have to be addressed in both this and the 2014 and 2015 drafts before we know whether or not this team is going to turn into something more than a 9-7, 1st round playoff out. I'm thinking big picture, not quick fix. Lots of wood to cut imho. I'm willing to ride out the storm if it means a better chance of building a long-term bad ass foundation. Mules that will pound year after year. Yes the game's opened up, but it's still football; 11 guys on both sides lining up and hitting each other: the guy left standing wins. The question I guess is, which route do you think gets you there more times (i.e. more years) than not. With all due respect Kurt, anyone who knew what DeCastro was about coming into last year's draft would not say that he and Warmack are an "apples to apples" comparison. DeCastro was/is considered more of a technician and his power was not cited as a strength. Additionally, DeCastro himself mentioned the 'strength issue' early in Steeler camp even before he injured his knee. Warmack is the complete package and not just a road grader. Pass rushers who Warmack got his mitts on were regularly stoned on the spot. He is not only drive block stong but also 'standup' strong as well and with very good feet to boot (no pun intended). Warmack's performance especially in the 2nd half against Georgia's 360 pound projected 1st round NT John Jenkins in the SEC Championship Game confirmed what I've know about this guy the past 2 years (the ND game was window dressing). Lastly, if you've watched lots of Alabama games, you'd see that they also ran plays calling for Warmack to pull as well. Btw, you wanna see a WR in the Julio Jones mold? Amari Cooper, Alabama freshman. My point being that if we don't grab a Cordelle Patterson this particular year, not all is lost. There will be talent in the years to come, hopefully when this team fills in the pieces and starts to turn it around. So you want the Jets war room to operate with a "prevent defense" mindset? Let's spend a 1st round pick on a 5'8", 168 pound guy to keep him out of New England? THIS is the same 'prevent' mindset that had the paranoid Jet fanbase biting on Vernon Gholston (read: NE's pre-draft fake 'Gholston interest' leaks). Chris Johnson is a 5'10", 195 weight lifter. Let's not mistake Austin for Chris Johnson, certainly not yet anyway. While Austin's had a more productive career than another little West Virginia speedster Noel Devine who was fast as hell and as slippery as an eel, as good a little baller as Austin is, I still have to think twice about pulling the 1st roud trigger on a guy who stands a better chance of getting blown up that a 10-year plug-in "good money" proven blue-chipper. I'm still watching and rewatching film on guys and I still don't have a complete picture of where the Jets should go in the 1st round let alone the following rounds in a draft where quality is still there after the 2nd round. I only know this about Chance Warmack: he's not an every year talent and there's a reason why a number of "experts" have pegged him, a guard no less, as the best player in the draft. Kurt, we'll just agree to disagree for now on which direction to go, no big deal. The way I see it is this: the Jets will suck in 2013 period because this roster has far too many holes that need to be patched up along with so many new coaches (and Rex's potentially shaky status) to be making any waves in 2013 and probably 2014 as well. I'm thinking get the foundation in place to set up the home run hitters. Home run hitters are better served, are more productive and whose numbers get bigger when you have the set up men supporting them, i.e. setting the table for them (to put a lame analogy in play). Just my 2 cents. Regards.
Kurt is right that this offense needs a playmaker. I think Hill, Holmes, Kerley and Edwards could be a good receiver combination, but when Holmes is gone, it wouldn't hurt to have a third guy in there. Would make life a lot easier for whoever the quarterback was if we had that much speed and playmaking ability on the outside. Patterson IMO is the most explosive/highest upside WR in this draft. Though WR, like RB, has some nice depth options in the middle rounds. I'm a big Terrance Williams fan, and he might not even be a top 5 WR in this draft. Lots of good depth out there. I would absolutely LOVE it if we could somehow trade down. Though I know that's far easier said than done.
I would like to trade down also, but if we cannot - take the BPA that also fits the need. Warmack has dominated his colleagues in the best conference in College Football. Play-makers are available in rounds 2-4. I would love to grab an extra first to get a RB / WR at the end of the first round. This can be done by trading Revis. Warmack and Bernard are two players that can change our offense completely. I wouldn't reach for a player in this draft, due to upside.
I don't get all the Patterson love. I think he is extremely over rated and I don't even think he was the best receiver for Tennessee, I think his counter part will be a much better receiver in the NFL. The guy is similar to Hill, his mold and potential are intriguing but that is the extent of it because he is very raw with little production in college. It's not worth the risk in the first, let alone at the 9.
It’s not as if I & other’s don’t respect what OL means to the grand scheme of the game. Of course you need to keep your QB off his back & create rushing lanes. But you also have to recognize that the game has changed. More & more it is a passing league. Moreso it’s about creating big plays off of quick passes & favorable match-ups. Who do the Jets have on offense right now on the outside who presents a match-up problem for the defense? Holmes?Kerely? Hill? They’re all a stretch..and it’s been a long time. Conversely, the Jets have 2 all pro caliber linemen already in house & at various times over the last decade or so have demonstrated the ability to field a respectable O-line unit. O-line hasn’t held back this team over the last 10 years. Maybe under Kotite/Coslet/Walton it did..but the Jets O-line woes are a thing of the past. The problem is on the outside. Fix the problem.
The big thing Patterson shows that most receivers of his size don't, is elusiveness with the ball in his hands. Not only can the guy flat out fly, but he can make people miss in the open field. That is something Hill never displayed. He does catch with his body too much, but his upside as a playmaker is not something to ignore. With the way this draft class looks, a ton of solid guys but not a ton of top end guys, someone will take the stab at elite potential over average production in the first.
I still wouldn't take him at 9. Trade down and get him a little later, fine, but if we're going offense that high, I'd prefer Warmack. While the quarterback is the biggest problem, we had nobody on this team who made big plays last season. Kerley, Hill and Holmes all had ability, but hard to trust any of them as a gamebreaking playmaker next season. The Jets have made no big plays the last two seasons, players who can turn a 10 yard play into a 40 or 70 yard play are sorely needed here. I think there's too high of a bust factor than with Patterson to go with him as the only return from the 9th pick in the draft. He's a little raw, doesn't have a lot of experience catching jump balls, and is a body catcher. Those are all red flags. But with the ball in his hands, the only guy who is more dangerous at WR in this class is Austin. Except Patterson is 6'2", 215 lbs.
Justin Hunter reminds me a lot more of Hill than Patterson does... I dont really see a Patterson-Hill comparison at all, aside from the fact that Patterson only really had one year of production at the division one level (still produced at JuCo). Their games are built completely different. Patterson is someone that could touch the ball 10-15 times a game easily without having to run a straight line down the field. You get the ball to him on kick/punt returns, end arounds, screens, and even runs out of the backfield. Honestly, Patterson has a better skillset as a RB than anyone on our team currently. He is probably the most sudden player I have ever seen for someone his size (in the NFL, only Percy Harvin compares, yet he's 5'11). Thats immediate production, without even factoring in his ability as a receiver- he actually has above average hands and isnt as raw as a route runner as people say he is. Maybe he's not the best value at 9, but if we were to get another 1st from Revis or trade back, he would be a great option.
Bama players scare me. For a team that has owned college football for the last few years, aside from Julio Jones, they have had a ton of guys who end up as JAGS. Not so easy to stand out when you're no longer the only guys doing roids.
Wayne Hunter? Eventually, we will need a stud guard to help out Mangold and Brick. Throwing Warmack in between would make our offensive line one of the best in football and Brick and Mangold will thrive because of it. 2 great offensive lineman cannot carry the load for 2 others, one learning the position (Austin Howard) and the other just not being good (Vlad and Slauson). You don't even know if Slauson is coming back. Moore might retire you never know. Warmack is elite at every aspect. Eventually people will bitch that we don't have a beast guard, well instead of waiting till the last minute to replace a player, get one that could be one of the best in the league. Offensive line issues are not a thing of the past.
First of all nobody "Needs" a stud guard. It's the lowest impact position on an offense. In other words..if you are gonna "get by" at one position along the front 5..odds are it's guard as you can cover up limitations in the phone booth. Impact guard is not a need..it's a luxury. Secondly..it's alot easier to fill a starting guard slot than it is to find an offensive playmaker. Case & point..the jets have been in need of offensive playmakers for well over 5 years. Meanwhile the Jets HAD the best OL in arguably in the NFL in 09/10. Statistically the Jets OL was top 3 last season.... WHat were the jets offensive rankings pertaining to the skill positions?
Adrian Peterson had one of the best RB seasons ever. The offensive line deserves MAJOR credit for opening up monster holes for Peterson. Who cares if they don't get the attention or the glamor, they do the dirty work and with all these interior pass-rushers coming in making plays, having a stud guard can help us. If you grab Warmack with the 9, trade Revis for a first rounder and get Gio Bernard at the end of the first round, you have a special weapon that can run, catch and block. He has a special ability to take over a game. Having Warmack and Mangold opening up holes, he may take one to the house every now and then. He has the potential to be a top 10 back in this league. Keenan Allen could be there, as it seems his stock is dropping a bit. Round 2, go ahead and find that WR that can produce, a Terrance Williams type player, whatever WRs are available, maybe you find a good TE that can block and catch. You don't reach for players, we do not have that luxury, we need players that can make plays and make plays now, have an instant impact on the team. I'm not reaching for any of those WRs with the 9th overall pick. none have the talent of a Julio Jones not even close. and we don't need a WR that catches balls with his body (aka Patterson). BPA, Warmack hands down. As I mentioned, I want an offensive heavy draft. btw Jets being a top 3 o-line is horse-shit and very much misleading. I don't buy that for a second.
The reason why the Jets top 3 O-line appears misleading is reflective in your first point:The jets didn't have the skill players to actually MAKE the Jets OL look good nor could they pick up blitzes. Defenses are too good now...even if you are solid up front.If you don't have match-up guys..you aren't gonna score points. I'm all for "BPA". But I strongly believe that superior offensive skill trumps all & that this franchise needs to join the new era of offensive football. 5 Anthony Munoz's upfront won't win if the jets don't add outside talent. We've shunned it for other needs way too long.When is enough..enough?
The way I see it, if Tannenbaum thinks he should be a Jet. He shouldn't be a jet. There's a reason he isn't our GM anymore.
What??!? Hunter has the same speed, runs better routes, catches with his hands, has more college production despite being injured. If it wasn't for his injury we wouldn't even be talking about this. Hunter finally started to come to form late in the year and that wasn't even at full go yet. I disagree with just about everything in your post. Hunter is not that raw prospect like Hill and Patterson. They are not alike at all in that aspect.
That reason has as more to do with poor contracts and asset management than poor drafting. Don't forget he is also the guy who assembled the team that went to back to back AFC championship games with average at best QB play. He may have burned out quickly here, but he also was a big part of what we did over the last 7 seasons.
Understandable, but at the end of the day, no skill player is worth the 9th overall pick in this particular draft. If you trade down and get more picks, we can talk. If we stand pat, we should be taking Warmack or Dion Jordan. There are skill player available in rounds 2 through 4. That's my only issue, Patterson isn't worth the 9th overall pick. He's a high boom or bust player. Patterson catches balls with his body, and he hasn't had a consistent college career, he's not exactly a sure thing with the 9th overall pick. We do need to get into the new era of football, but that doesn't mean we are throwing the football 40-50 times a game. The running game is coming back in the NFL, and I see us as being a balanced offense going forward. I want a player with the 9th pick, not a project.
Umm, what years did the jets make the AFC championship game? You actually just proved how important a guy like Faneca- Warrmack is
