I think the Jets have to trade back if they get any kind of reasonable offer (at least a 2nd, 3rd & 6th this year for moving back 2-3 spots. If they moved back further, then they should get next year's 1st or 2nd round pick, plus a 2nd and 3rd or 4th and 6th round pick this year.) I'd have a hard time passing on Allen at #3, but no problems passing on Q. Williams or even Bosa. Brian Burns or Montez Sweat may wind up being the best edge rusher in the draft. The Jets could trade back to the 6-10 area and probably get one of those two, have a second round pick that they could use on a WR or OL, and some additional picks. There is a ton of speed in this draft at edge rusher, WR, RB, CB and even LB. The Jets need to add team speed, but not just speed. I'm not advocating for players who won the Combine but have little or no collegiate production. That, and his injury history is why I wouldn't touch DK Metcalf in spite of his size/speed and bloodlines. Depending upon whom they signed in FA and how far back the Jets trade, I could see the 1st round pick being used on an edge rusher, WR or possibly even an LT prospect. Hopefully, they won't take a CB or LB with it. I would be very happy iwth one of Brian Burns, Montez Sweat, N'Keal Harry in the 1st round. Adding a 2nd round pick will be critical if they fail to sign either Paradis or Morse to start at C. They will then practically have to draft one of Elgton Jenkins or Garrett Bradbury to start. There are no OGs worthy of a 1st round selection, so if they fail to sign a starting quality OG in FA, then they'll need to draft an OG in the 2nd (Chris Lindstrom maybe) or 3rd round (Dru Samia? Michael Jordan? Ben Powers?). If they fail to sign Flowers or Fowler in FA, they could still take an edge rusher in the 1st round. I'm hoping that we at least add Flowers, Paradis, Ingram, and Sitton in FA . That would give the Jets more flexibility in the draft. They wouldn't think they had to add an edge rusher in the 1st or add a C in the 2nd or 3rd round. They'd be free to add another edge rusher like Allen, or trade back and add a WR like Hakim Butler, Deebo Samuel, Kelvin Harmon, JJ Arcega-Whiteside, or Emmanuel Butler, or David Montgomery at RB, OL, a CB or LB in the 2nd round.
Well said NCJetsfan! We need multi picks to help round out some solid players. Yeah Allen & Bossa are both attractive players but with no 2nd pick it hurts. I too think we can get another impact player in 6-10th pick such as Sweat or a solid Edge rusher and obtain a 2nd pick plus another pick (4th or 5th) than getting an Allen or Bossa with no 2nd rd pick plus another pick even if we pick up 4/5 players in FA. The team doesn’t have depth.
More than players this team needs elite talent. Elite talent masks other issues. Trading down takes away the chance of adding that kind of player.
Yes, this team needs elite talent, but we don't need elite talent at positions where we don't have a need or where that elite talent is not going to be a scheme fit. Since we're sticking to a base 3-4 D, there is absolutely zero reason to take Quinnen Williams. It would be a wasted pick just like most of the DT picks the Jets have made over the last decade.
If Murray goes one or two, the Jets can get one of Bosa or Allen, do you take them? The Jets haven't had an elite edge in years.
Yes. They are the only two guys I want at 3. If they are both gone we have to trade out. Have to. I cannot take Williams at 3.
First and foremost, let me say that I agree that we haven't had an elite edge rusher in a decade or more and I think it's a necessity for our D. It's a definite need, something that I've been clamoring for the Jets to address for at least 10 years, it's a golden opportunity to get one, and as someone said yesterday, it would be awesome to add our FQB last year's draft and a stud edge rusher in this draft. For me, it would all depend upon whether I was able to sign Flowers in FA, which one of Allen and Bosa is sitting there at our pick, and what kind of offers I got to trade down. If I signed Flowers in FA, I wouldn't feel an urgency to have to take an edge rusher, so I almost certainly wouldn't take Bosa and probably not Allen, either. I might still look to take one, but since it's a deep draft for edge rushers, I would probably look to take one in the 3rd round. If I didn't sign Flowers in FA and had to settle for someone like Fowler or some other second tier edge rusher and Allen is the one sitting there at our pick, it would take a very good trade down offer, and I'd have to be very confident that I could still get Brian Burns at that lower pick. I like Burns' potential a lot. Burns could wind up being just as good as Allen, maybe better. Burns plus a premium WR or OL pick could wind up helping the team more than just Allen. If Bosa was the one sitting there at our pick, even if I didn't sign Flowers, I would almost certainly trade down if I got any reasonable offer that left me in position to take Brian Burns or another edge rusher that I really liked and thought he would be a good scheme fit. If I didn't get an offer that would leave me in position to get Burns or another very good edge rushing prospect, even if it was a good offer, I'd probably stay put and take Bosa. Whether it's by FA or the draft, I think the Jets almost have to come out of this offseason with a very good, if not elite edge rusher or edge rushing prospect. I wouldn't trade down just for the sake of trading down, even if more draft picks would increase our chances of getting better overall talent and address some needs. Every great team does need at least 2-3 players with elite talent. We have Adams who is an elite talent. Sam could be an elite talent. Adding an elite edge rusher would make our D much, much better, would most likely result in Sam having more opportunities and getting the ball in better field position, and would make our team much more competitive.
OK, thanks. What do you think of Brian Burns? Do you think he's a very good edge rushing prospect? Would you be happy with him, a 2nd round pick, and additional 3rd round pick and a 3rd round pick next year?
There’s no one in this draft I want more than Allen, I feel like he is the best fit /talent match for the jets since we drafted Vilma, not including qbs. Now that said, if he goes and we trade down and end up with Burns I could live with that but Allen is priority 1.
They are comparable in size with Allen a little taller, with longer arms, but smaller hands. Allen is faster in the 40 and had a better jump which may mean that he is more explosive, but Bosa was a little better in the 3 cone and 20-yard shuttle. That should mean that Bosa is more agile and perhaps more athletic, but that's not what I've seen or what scouts have reported. Bosa edged Allen by one rep in the bench press. Both have high motors. Both are a little stiff in the hips. At this point Bosa has better hand usage, but a scouting report or two said that Allen should be able to fix that pretty easily in the NFL and when he does, his production is really going to skyrocket. If Allen could have the production he had with limited hand usage, and only a couple of pass rush moves, I can't wait to see what he can do with better hand usage, another pass rush move or two, and more counter moves. Several reasons. First and foremost I really place a premium on college production. Allen had much better production against stronger competition in the SEC than Bosa did in the Big10 (or Big12 or whatever it's called now). In 2016-2017 seasons Bosa averaged 31.5 tackles, 6.75 TFLs, and 11.5 sacks. In those same years, Allen averaged 64 tackles, 9.5 TFLs and 7 sacks. Allen is more fluid in space, is better in pass coverage, better vs. the run, and did a lot to elevate the play of his team. He doesn't have an injury history, at least not the last 3 years (I'm not certain about his freshman year.). Allen has a year more collegiate experience against top level competition, and I think he has a higher ceiling. I think Williams can do more with Allen in terms of disguising coverages and from where the pass rush is coming. He couldn't do that with Bosa. I think Bosa may also be better suited to the 4-3 D, but could be wrong about that. Finally, after seeing both play in games and highlight tapes, I just came away liking Allen better. Call it a gut feeling.
Do you like one better than the other? If so, which one, and why? Would you stay put and draft either one regardless of what was offered in a trade down package? Also, would what happens in FA affect your decision?
Here's my whole thing with Bosa v Allen. I think from a physical/athletic standpoint Allen is the choice. But I just don't know whether he's the real deal or Dion Jordan. I have nothing to gauge him off of. I don't know what his floor is and we can only guess what his ceiling is. Folks have suggested Nick Bosa is as good as or better than Joey Bosa. If the floor of Nick Bosa is Joey Bosa then that is an incredible hedge because we cannot blow this pick. And if his ceiling is above Joey's then it's a no brainer.
I think those saying that Nick is as good or better than Joey are sadly mistaken. Allen is a hard worker and imo has a better attitude and more love for the game. I don't like Bosa's taking the rest of the year off to prepare for the draft after he was healed from the injury. That doesn't speak well to me of Bosa's character. He seems like another selfish player who is only dedicated to himself, not his team nor his teammates.
Based on what? How much of Joey and Nick did you watch? Most true experts that know the two players--real NFL/college types-- think Nick is as good or better. Plus, Joey is kind of a dope and Nick has a superior football IQ. I like Allen but there is nothing objective to suggest he's better than Nick. We KNOW Joey is a great NFL player and if Nick's floor is Joey, then the risk of busting on the 3 pick is really diminished.
Indifferent on either, I'm leaning Allen but I wouldn't be mad with Bosa. I would stay put and take either unless if I'm given a crazy trade offer like a 2019 1st and a couple 2s in the 2019 draft, something a little less than what the Jets gave up to get Darnold. I would be more inclined to trade out if we landed Trey Flowers, Anthony Barr, etc. I would be really really interested in double dipping with a guy like Flowers or Barr and Allen or Bosa though, it would turn one of our weakest positions into a team strength.
