ALL - TIME Season and Draft analysis Thread

1028 and Cakes on back-to-back weeks... ouch.

Good job with this Murrell.

 

all time NFL draft

team: Whales
city: Bloomington, Minnesota
stadium: Metropolitan Stadium

*(QB) Roger Staubach retired as the NFL's all time highest rated passer. 14 times he led the Cowboys from behind in the final two minutes.

*(QB) Sonny Jurgensen was considered the best passer of his time. Johnny Unitas said, "If I threw as much as Jurgensen, my arm would fall off, and if I could throw as well, my head would swell up too big to get into a helmet."

(RB) Marshall Faulk was the NFL MVP in 2000.

*(RB) John Henry Johnson rushed for 6,803 yards, the fourth-highest total when he retired. However, he was probably a more impressive blocker. Pro football historian Bob Carroll wrote, "If you're going to rate running backs on their blocking, you can give the crown to John Henry Johnson and go home."

*(RB) Leroy Kelly had the impossible job of replacing the legendary Jim Brown. Few young players in history ever had a more ominous assignment and perhaps no player ever responded more magnificently in a similar situation. He was voted All-NFL five times and ran for 7,274 yards, which was fourth highest when he retired. Kelly ran flatfooted, which helped make him perhaps the greatest mudder of all time. He was the leading punt returner in 1965 and lead the AFC in 1971.
Head coach Blanton Collier on Brown-Kelly comparisons- "It's impossible to compare them. Jim played at 222 to 228 and was a fullback type of power runner. Leroy is 200 pounds and a halfback type of runner. Leroy did a lot of things Jim was never asked to do. He played on our special teams. He is a fine team man- good tackler, blocker and pass receiver."

*(WR) Paul Warfield - "I always felt totally mismatched against Warfield. He was able to come downfield and make his moves at high speeds. His breakaway speed could easily get him past all of our defensive backs, especially me. On top of that, he was willing to make the tough inside post catches, both short and long, and was willing to come over the middle and take a hit. He was the best I played against by far." -Steelers Pro Bowl safety Mike Wagner

(WR) Jerry Rice

*(TE) Jackie Smith caught 480 passes for 7,918 yards and 40 touchdowns. He was the third TE to be elected to the Hall of Fame. Smith was the Cardinals punter from 1964-66.

(TE) Charlie Sanders played in seven Pro Bowls in his 10-year career. His QB Greg Landry said, "Charlie was strong enough to work against anyone in the secondary, even linebackers who had him in coverage, and he was fast enough that strong safeties had problems coping with him in the open field. He was a wonderful target with his size, and an intelligent receiver who knew how to find open spots, or adjust routes to make it easier for me to reach him." Sanders was also a great blocker. "He just crushed the corner when he came off the ball, regardless of whether he was lined up against a defensive lineman or a linebacker. It was like having a third tackle in the game," Landry said.

(LT) Winston Hill was an eight-time Pro Bowler and once started 176 consecutive games.

*(LG) John Hannah was the premier guard of his era.

*(C) Clyde "Bulldog" Turner was named as the all-pro center six times. He also played linebacker. Turner was versatile enough that he could have played as an offensive back had he not been such a superb center and linebacker. Led the NFL in interceptions with 8 in 1942.

*(RG) Larry Little was named to the 1970s all-decade team. He was the most frightening lineman of the Dolphins vaunted rushing attack. Also a superb pass blocker, he was named the NFL Players Association's AFC lineman of the year in 1970, 1971, and 1972.

*(RT) Bob "Boomer" Brown once got in a three-point stance and put a forearm smash on a goalpost, knocking it down. In L.A. he warned Deacon Jones to stop head-slapping him in practice. Finally, Brown removed a screw on the side of his helmet and replaced it with a longer screw that had been sharpened like an ice pick. Jones slapped Brown's helmet and got his hand stuck. Jones has a scar in the middle of his left hand to this day. "I'm about as subtle as a sixteen-pound sledgehammer," Brown said of his style of aggressive blocking.

(DE) Rich "Tombstone" Jackson was the premier pass rush in football for several years before a knee injury cut his career short. He was named first team All-AFL in 1968 and first team All-NFL in 1970. Steve Sabol and Paul Zimmerman list Jackson as the best player not in the Hall of Fame.

*(DT) Bob Lilly played in 11 Pro Bowls and 196 consecutive games. He was the foundation of the great Dallas defense.

*(DT) Buck Buchanan batted down 16 passes in 1967. The 6'7" intimidator had the speed to run sideline to sideline to make tackles. "The finest linemen I have seen," said Grambling head coach Eddie Robinson.

(DE) Charles Haley played the elephant position in which he lined up as an end on rushing downs and charged in from a standing position on passing downs. "Charles is one of the greatest players of our era," Bill Walsh said. "At one point, he was considered the best pass rusher in all of football." Haley retired tied for 17th all-time in career sacks. He won Super Bowl titles with the 49ers in 1988 and '89 and with the Cowboys in 1992, '93 and '95.

*(OLB) Bobby Bell became the first Chiefs player to be enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame when he was chosen in the Class of 1983 . . .Superb athlete began his pro career as a defensive end, because the Chiefs needed help at that position when he was drafted in the seventh round in 1963 . . . In his third season he was moved to linebacker, where he earned a spot in the AFL All-Star game and then the Pro Bowl the next nine years . . . Was named to the AFLs all-time team by the Pro Football Hall of Fame . . . Starred on two AFL Championship teams, playing in Super Bowls I and IV . . . Intercepted 26 passes, recovered 15 fumbles and scored nine touchdowns in 168 career games . . . Also handled deep snapping on punts and placekicks.

*(MLB) Dick Butkus - "If I had a choice, I'd sooner go one-on-one with a grizzly bear." -running back MacArthur Lane

*(OLB) Jack Ham was one of the top three outside linebackers of all time, along with Lawrence Taylor and Bobby Bell. Ham covered the field from sideline to sideline and was quick to sniff out running plays. He recorded 32 interceptions and 21 fumble recoveries. Chuck Noll said, "He was a dominant player who basically had no weaknesses."

*(LCB) Lem Barney was one of history's premier cornerbacks. The flamboyant speedster also excelled as a punt and kickoff return specialist and made it impossible for opposing defenses ever to relax when he was on the field. He was the Lions punter in 1967 and 1969.

(FS) Brian Dawkins is one of the best safeties in the game today. He is an intense, emotional team leader and a heavy hitter.

(SS) Kenny Easley was the 1984 Defensive Player of the Year. He made the Pro Bowl five times in his seven seasons and was first team All-NFL three times. He intercepted 32 passes for 538 yards in 89 career games.

(RCB) Roger Wehrli was a seven-time Pro Bowl selection. Played on the same side of the field as free safety Larry Wilson, who frequently blitzed. This created more coverage responsibility for Wehrli. Don Coryell, his head coach in St. Louis, had this to say, "I have never seen anyone with more determination to succeed."

(RCB) Hanford Dixon was the "Top Dawg" of the vaunted Browns secondary of the 1980s. Dixon was first team All-NFL twice. Barked at wide receivers.

*(K) Jan Stenerud was the first pure kicker to enter the Hall of Fame. Early in his career he didn't have the advantage of artificial turf, domed stadiums or even warm-up nets on the sidelines. The offensive concept of maneuvering into field goal position in close games was just emerging.

(P) Reggie Roby was a three-time Pro Bowler and had a career punting average of 43.3 yards. He wore a wristwatch during play.

*Hall of Famer

 

Offense: My offense is running-style with 3 excellent backs in Walter Payton, Jim Taylor, and Franco Harris as well as a very good offensive line led by one of the best and smartest centers in the history of the game (Mel Hein). With a boring 3 or 4 yards per play by my running game... it has a tendency to put even the smartest defenses to sleep. This opens up the field for my strong armed QB (Elway) to show of his arm strength with one of the best playmakers ever (Hirsch). I also have 3 good possession receivers in Brown, Newsome, and Smith where we can slowly pick defenses apart that way.

Defense: Having Gino Marchetti, John Randle, and Doug Atkins rushing your passer while Merlin Olsen ties up blockers is a nightmare for opposing QBs. This makes my pass rush unit elite... even in an All-Time draft like this. My secondary is filled up with ballhawk-type players that should take advantage of this pass rush, and I also have an excellent cover LB in Jesse Armstead. With my defensive lineman breathing down a QBs back on almost every play he's going to throw erratic passes into their laps every now and then. I also picked up Sam Adams who will substitue for John Randle on running downs, giving us more beef up the middle. The achilles heel of my defense (and really on my team) is the run stopping unit. Christiansen and Wood both fit better at FS, not giving us a true SS. But, with a defensive genius like Bill George playing "quarterback of the defense," I think an average run blocking unit will look a little better. IMO the best and really only way to move the ball effectively against this D is on the ground.

Special Teams: Gary Anderson is without a doubt a top 3 kicker in NFL history (i rank him as #1) and Bennett is the best modern day punter and one of the best all-time. Christiansen is going to be my kick returner. He was a super star returner and other teams had the strategy of "don't kick it towards Jack."

Donnie's Dragons (All-Time NFL Draft Team):

Enjoy my comments on Sam Adams

A few quotes on my guys:

I would say that as a lineman, I patterned myself after Gino Marchetti.

-Hall of Fame DL Bob Lilly

I think Jim Taylor was very underrated, never hear much about him. We played Green Bay every year in exhibition, and generally we played them every couple of years in regular season. And I always thought he was a fierce competitor.

-Hall of Fame DL Bob Lilly

I played against some mean ones, but I never met anyone meaner than Atkins. After my first meeting with him, I really wanted to quit pro football. He just beat the hell out of me. He rammed me back there so hard the only thing I could do was wave to Johnny (Unitas) as I went by. It was awful. Finally, my coaches convinced me that not every pro player was like Atkins.

-Hall of Fame OL Jim Parker

Atkins was the most magnificent physical specimen I had ever seen.

-Hall of Fame coach Weeb Ewbank

(Speaking of Walter Payton) He was the best football player I've ever seen, and probably one of the best people I've ever met.

-Hall of Fame TE Mike Ditka

Walter Payton was an inspiration to me by the way he carried himself on the field and off the field

-All-Time rushing yards leader Emmitt Smith

 

Whales

Starting Lineup
QB- Roger Staubach
RB- Marshall Faulk
RB- John Henry Johnson
SE- Paul Warfield
LT- Winston Hill
LG- John Hannah
C- Bulldog Turner
RG- Larry Little
RT- Bob Brown
TE- Jackie Smith
FL- Jerry Rice

DE- Rich Jackson
DT- Bob Lilly
DT- Buck Buchanan
DE- Charles Haley
SLB- Bobby Bell
MLB- Dick Butkus
WLB- Jack Ham
LCB- Lem Barney
SS- Kenny Easley
FS- Brian Dawkins
RCB- Roger Wehrli

Substitutions
RB- Leroy Kelly
TE- Charlie Sanders
QB- Sonny Jurgensen
CB- Hanford Dixon

Offense- Opponents are going to get a number of looks here. Most often, plays will be run out of a split-back formation. However, the Shotgun (a formation Staubach is familiar with) will be used at times.
The biggest threat will occur when Faulk lines up as a wide receiver (with Kelly or Johnson in the backfield to protect the passer).
Johnson is considered by many to have been the best blocking back of all time. He was a great runner, too. Johnson gained 1048 yards (on a 4.5 average) with the Steelers in 1964 at the age of 35. However, on this team his primary duty would be to block. Kelly and Faulk will get the vast majority of the carries and most likely they will not give the ball up (these two players simply do not fumble often).
Unlike most teams in this tournament there will not be much bitching on this team. Paul Warfield (who will strictly play the classic split end position) is a very classy player- whether he catches one ball or ten, it doesn't matter. Kelly is also a consummate team player (as he displayed by returning kicks, making special teams tackles, and blocking). Smith will get his share of balls. Rice and Faulk will be the featured players and they'll get their normal number of touches.

Defense- This will be a 4-3 defense. Opponents must deal with two menacing pass rushers in Jackson and Haley. It will be very difficult to run on this team when you consider who makes up the front seven. The two safeties are punishing tacklers. The cornerbacks are renowned for their coverage skills. Putting points on the board is going to be an accomplishment against this defense.

 

Seems like you need to spend more time studying for history class than you do on this board, because there was never an American President name Sam Adams. :lol: :wink:

 

Damn this is cool.

Donnie, you better put together 162 game schedules for the baseball league.

 

Donnie- Hirsch didn't play the slot to my knowledge.

 

:drunk: US History I isn't until next year for me anyway... so my school district is to blame! I'll change it

We've already decided that it is going to be a 16 team single elimination tournament... so sorry. I could've done a 2 conference thing where you play your conference teams twice and other teams once (22 games) but that would take way too long and people would lose interest in it. This drew much more interest early and throughout then the baseball draft has been so far... so a long schedule will work here but not there.

He played flanker... which to my knowledge is a modern day slot position, correct? He's fast and a gamebreaker so the slot would fit him best anyway.

 

See Page 4 for my team profiles

 

Here's a breakdown of my team:

Offense
This team has a lot of outstanding offensive players. Led by legend Johnny Unitas at QB, this offense can hurt you in many different ways. All-time leading rusher Emmitt Smith will take handoffs from Johnny U with Priest Holmes spelling him. Fullback Larry Csonka is an excellent lead blocker and an outstanding rusher. Wide receivers Marvin Harrison (927 rec.) and Art Monk (940 rec.) will provide Johnny Unitas with his primary targets. Andre Reed (951 rec.) will be the #3 receiver. Outstanding tight end Tony Gonzalez will provide blocking and superb pass catching skills. Two excellent blockers, Bob St. Clair and Tony Boselli will be the outside tackles. Jim Ringo will snap the ball with Hall of Famers Tom Mack and Mike Michalske flanking him. Broadway Joe Namath is the backup quarterback of this team and can certainly lead the team to victory as well. The ground game can set up a passing game that will be tough to stop.

Defense
My defense will be a 4-3 defense. This defensive is led by a big front four, a solid linebacking corps, and a superb secondary. The pass rush will be provided by two quick ends, Carl Eller and Andy Robustelli. Ted Washington will help stuff the run with high-energy Randy White disrupting opposing offenses. The linebacking corps will be anchored by Hall of Famer Harry Carson. I’ll move the quick and athletic Sam Huff to the strong side with Keith Brooking on the weak side. Finally, the secondary will greatly limit the opposing quarterback’s choices. Ballhawk Rod Woodson and shutdown corner Champ Bailey are featured as the cornerbacks. Speedy and versatile Yale Lary and hard-hitting ballhawk Ronnie Lott are the safeties.

Special Teams
Nick Lowery is one of the best and most accurate kickers in NFL history. The punting job goes to Shane Lechler, who is the best punter in the game right now and has almost 46 yards per punt average for his career. Yale Lary is one of the great special team players of all time. He can take over punting duties if Lechler struggles. Also, Lary’s breakaway speed on kickoff returns makes him a dangerous asset for the return game.


I will also use this post to do my Bio.

 

I was reacting to your all-time team comment for Rod Smith where you wrote Hirsch's natural position was slot receiver. This wasn't the case. The Rams weren't running three-receiver sets back then, maybe only once in a while when they put a back out there.

A slot receiver is a player who lines up in the slot between the tight end and the flanker.

At one time receivers were not known as wide receivers. They were known as split ends and flankers.

split ends are also known as X receivers
flankers are Z receivers
tight ends are Y receivers

The terms are still somewhat used today. You see'll SE and FL as positions in some gamebooks. The Steelers list some of their receivers as SEs and FLs. For those who play both, they dump the generic WR label on them.

Back in the day, tackles had players next to them on the line. These players were appropriately called ends. Eventually, one end was split out wide. The other end stayed in tight.

In the NFL, offenses must have at least seven players on the line of scrimmage. In base personnel, they would be a SE, T, G, C, G, T, and TE. The other players would be at least one yard off the line and they would be the QB, RB, RB, and FL.

Because your three WRs predominantly played the flanker position and we're dealing with all-time teams here anyway, it stands to reason some superb players (maybe on all of our teams) would have to sacrifice and play a little differently.

I'd play Hirsch at SE because I would want Brown at flanker. Plus, Hirsch was a little bigger and was probably better at beating press coverage (and played in a more physical era). Your QB (Elway) had amazing arm strength, so I think you could still throw a good deal of passes to Hirsch on the left side. The left side actually could even be your strong side because I think you're the guy who has two left tackles, which means you have a right tackle playing out of position. In turn, this would weaken the right side and would probably mean your tight end would have to stay in and block. If I recall correctly you are the Ozzie Newsome guy and that former college wide receiver was not known for his blocking. I commented that I didn't like the Newsome pick because I don't have him as a top 10 tight end and now it looks even worse with him on your team.

But that's my analysis. Doesn't make me right. This all time draft was partly brought about to introduce some NFL history to the people of this forum and spark conversation and part of that was going to be critiques of draft picks.

The SE and FL labels get muddled when the tight end shifts or goes in motion and all sorts of other stuff happens- two tight ends, flanker and split end on same side of formation, H-backs, this and that. That's why the SE and FL nomenclature is outdated to a point.

But particularly with your team I don't think a coach would move Newsome around a whole lot. In your offense the receiver on the left side would be a traditional split end and you'd have a flanker on the right.

My team is also going to have a set SE and FL. I will not be shifting Warfield and Rice.

 

Well theres my depth chart, I guess Ill start the write-up sometime tomorrow

 

And that's why I'm just a stupid high schooler that knows 2 WRs and not a FL or SE. Thanks for the insight.

I just would like to say that I think I'll be fine on the line since Willie Roaf is an excellent run blocker. Also, sending Newsome out on pass plays wouldn't be a problem with 2 LT's... correct? A LT in a RT position would mean an excellent pass blocker over there and the bookends would be alright. But, as I said, Willie Roaf was the anchor of the running game in NO and now KC, and at 320 pounds he should fit in fine at RT.

 

Blame some of the damn commentators. The coaches use the X, Z, and Y stuff, but the CBS and FOX announcers don't get too technical these days and rarely note the difference. Nowadays there is too much clowning and grab-ass going on in the booth and talking about turduckens and what not.

Check out Roaf's bio. If he's even played some RT, I would be perfectly okay with your two tackle selections. We know some of these tackles don't have mindsets to make the switch from the opposite side or if they did, sometimes they are far less effective.
I was only saying it would make your right side weaker because Roaf isn't as accustomed to that side and having an extra blocker next to him would help him.

 

It isn't much did he did play a full year at RT in the NFL and 1 in college: http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=19955

 

Then that's good. I thought he may have done so with the Saints even a little, but he did a full year.

 

When are we getting this going, Murrell?

 

He gave us a week extension because we had a holdup on Saturday. I don't see why we can't start Week 1 tonight or tomorrow and go through Sunday.