Zach Wilson (MERGED) - All new Zach threads will be merged here after a day

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by BudJet, Oct 9, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,574
    Likes Received:
    9,936
    And if the refs didn’t completely fuck up the calls on the interception and CJs penalty or even the one NE interception were he was out of bounds we would have won the game against NE. That’s great cherry picking.
    Ifs don’t mean crap..
     
  2. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    22,457
    Likes Received:
    22,099
    right but the discussion is on Zach Wilson. That blown call in Denver was directly related to Zach Wilson’s play. He is the one who had the disastrous fumble that fortunately was blown.

    You are bringing up plays by the defense
     
    Nyjets4eva likes this.
  3. AndyDrums

    AndyDrums Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    477
    No, they should hire you seeing as you provided such insight to this point and issue.
     
  4. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    5,150
    Well, subtracting that one quarter and saying he played bad for 3 quarters is the cherry-picking. I recall he scored a receiving TD before the 4th also. Overall, given he did miss 2 months, preseason, joint practices, Pitts game was OK. PFF also gave high grade for the entire game, not just 4th quarter. Miami game was good. Unfortunately it went down hill from there, with each game Zach playing worse and worse, being culminated with atrocious performance last Sunday.

    If this continues, or the improvement is not significant, we are screwed. If it gets worse or as bad as last game, we may be seeing Mike White. And I really don't want to see Mike White. He is 27 years old and I saw all I needed to see last year and in preseason. He is not the answer.
     
  5. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,574
    Likes Received:
    9,936
    The Zach interception was not an interception. the defender is out of bounds.
     
  6. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,574
    Likes Received:
    9,936
    Smart man
     
  7. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,574
    Likes Received:
    9,936
    Beautiful comment by Josh Allen. From the eyes of someone that actually can speak with authority. Of course if he did that for us in his early second year the haters here would have crucified him.

    Bills quarterback Josh Allen defended Wilson on Wednesday, noting that he did the exact same thing at just about the exact same stage of his career in 2019.

    “It’s a guy trying to make a play,” Allen said on Kyle Brandt’s Basement podcast. “And I was at that same position. I threw three picks against the Patriots my second year, and that’s kind of the game where it all clicked for me. So you can take that for what it is.”
    It’s true. Allen threw three picks against the Patriots in Week 4 of the 2019 season, completing 13-of-28 passes for 153 yards and taking four sacks. And just like the Jets with Wilson on Sunday, it was a game the Bills should have won because their defense held Tom Brady to one of the worst games of his career (18-of-39 for 150 yards and an interception). But they lost, 16-10 because they couldn’t overcome Allen’s turnovers.
     
  8. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,518
    Likes Received:
    11,420
    We're saved
     
    REVISion likes this.
  9. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,383
    Likes Received:
    7,441
    I don't think it matters if it was or was not an interception it was still a bad decision and bad throw. We should first and foremost care about the process before the results. For example in a 2 game span last year PFF credited Zach with 3 turnover worthy plays but he had 6 INTs in those two games (I believe one was drop, one was a receiver fell down and not sure the third). His play was not that bad but his luck was bad. Over time those things will even out. The first 5 games last year Zach's turnover worthy throw rate was 5 percent with a league average of 3.3 percent. The last 7 games he was 2.8 percent. This year I read his numbers were much higher. I believe it is 6 percent but not 100 percent sure. My point is I am more concerned about making turnover worthy plays than the end results as likely over time his TO's will fall more in line with how many bad throws he makes. But, I also would argue that Zach's bad 2nd half throws were related to the RFP and the missed FG. He was frustrated, pressing and forced balls he should have known better than to throw. Hopefully, a lesson he will learn from.
     
    KY Jets Fan and LAJet like this.
  10. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,518
    Likes Received:
    11,420
    It was an interception regardless of semantics, it was also an absolutely horrendous throw into touch, you have all the sideline to aim at but manage to put it into an opposition players reach, awful.
     
    KY Jets Fan, Ralebird and Nyjets4eva like this.
  11. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,064
    Likes Received:
    13,838
    So over 2 games if ZW throws 3 picks it's not a bad thing?

    This is the kind of number-twisting that goes on here all the time. He had 6 picks over 2 games but only 3 of them were bad throws so he really wasn't that bad.

    The problem with ZW is he's always gonna pull a great throw out of his &^% eventually and then that becomes the highlight reel addition that makes some people not understand how bad a QB he really is.

    I would probably be somewhere else on the spectrum with ZW if I hadn't watched Richard Todd make a great throw for every terrible throw he made over the first 4 years of his career with the Jets. I came away from that with a clear understanding that no QB is defined by his great throws. They're all defined by their worst throws. If they don't have many worst throws and lots of great throws then they're an NFL QB. If they go one-for-one they're not an NFL QB.

    ZW hasn't gotten anywhere close to one-for-one yet in his career.
     
  12. BrooklynJetsFan

    BrooklynJetsFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    803
    No it didn't. The game was still 10-3. Zach threw the INT to cause the everything to crumble. Back pedaling, lob into the middle of the field. Not inexcusable, but very bad. He makes that throw properly or runs for the yards at least we get 4th down or pin NE deep. Halftime we go in 10-3, with plenty of confidence.

    Zach's INT caused the downfall, not the JFM RTP.
     
    Nyjets4eva likes this.
  13. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,312
    Likes Received:
    7,162
    What? Do you guys know what the definition of cherry picking is? How can looking at 3 quarters be cherry picking but not looking at 1 quarter?

    And that's not what I was doing anyway, I said this a few days ago when you said he played average that game overall:

    I legitimately feel like I'm taking crazy pills around here lately.
     
    Ralebird, HomeoftheJets and Jets79 like this.
  14. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    5,150
    I am not saying you are doing it. We just disagree whether the overall game against Pitt was bad vs average and in line with expectations given 7 week lay-off and critical time missed. Also, when looking at stats people forget that Zach drove them down the field and scored a receiving touchdown. Anyway, I go by play by play analysis on available opportunities vs opportunities taken. PFF agrees with me, actually they rated him above average, so I don't think it was just me being a homer or crazy. Michael Nania, who ripped Zach new asshole in the last few games, had it similarly.

    My point about cherry picking is that when someone says Zach had 3 bad quarters vs 1 good one, that is not a fair assessment. This is not boxing or UFC where each round is scored independently. And even there there is a possibility of a KO, which Zach arguably delivered to Pitts. You have to look at the entire game, don't just pick quarters you don't like. Not to mention Zach scored a TD in the 1st as well. You looked at the whole game, and this is not to you, but I do see this is brought a lot where really good parts of the game are removed to make the guy look worse. Not that Zach needs any help looking bad now after the last game, but still. IMO Pitts game overall considering the lay-off, was decent and in line with expectations.
     
  15. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,574
    Likes Received:
    9,936
    No one said that.We all freaking understand it was a terrible throw.
    But you can’t make the assertion on one hand as he did for the Denver game that the call should have been a fumble and he would have lost the game. That’s utter BS yet not conclude the same for the NE game with those horrific ref calls. Bad pass or not. The argument was about his record as a starter, not how good or bad his performance was. That is the classic cheery picking, when he wins he didn’t play well enough, yada yada yada, should have lost the game, but when we loose the are no excuses, no bad call that changed the game. Rubbish
     
  16. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    15,522
    Likes Received:
    13,938
    Acad23 likes this.
  17. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,518
    Likes Received:
    11,420
    I have made no such assertion, I have absolutely no idea what that has got to do with you saying it wasn't an interception and it shouldn't be counted when it was indeed an interception and a god awful throw regardless of anything else.

    I don't mention anything about his wins, good play or bad play, just on how awful the throwaway was, it wasn't rocket science, was it?

    As for your last sentence, you kind of drift away into some unintelligible waffle that is well, unintelligible. :confused:


    For your memory and just to clarify, this is the post I replied to.

    I thought my reply was easy to understand but your further quoting would certainly prove me wrong on that score.
     
  18. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    5,150
    We have to take Josh's comments with the grain of salt, after all, weren't there pictures of them banging Milfs together at some party in the offseason? But this did prompt me to take a look at the point in the season where Josh had this game against NE. Turned out it was his 4th game in the second season. Not unlike Zach's 5th game now - pretty early in the season. After that game Josh had 3 TDs and 6 INTs for the year. 3 rushing TDs and 2 fumbles lost, for a total of 6 TDs and 8 TOs. Zach now has 3 TDs and 5INTs, 2 more TDs and 0 fumbles lost, for a total on 5TDs and 5TOs. Everyone is saying his second season was much better than Zach's one is going now, but after that NE game Josh's second season was projected to be just as bad if not worse.

    The point is that Josh 1st quarter of the season is comparable to Zach's: he stunk. He then turned it around later on and ended with overall decent second year. He did say it came together after that really bad NE game. It doesn't mean it will come together for Zach, but there is still some hope of similar trajectory. That means though he has to turn it around like Josh did. Looking forward to Buffalo game to start reversing the trend.
     
  19. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,574
    Likes Received:
    9,936
    Well you jumped in the middle of a thread as I was responding to someone else regarding bad officiating and winning versus losing the game. So you took that out of context.
    Nonetheless, to your point, you were very clear but technically dead wrong. When the defender catches the ball out of bounds is not an interception. Period end of story. No semantics about it. Was it a complete shit pass, no doubt. But in this case is no different that when a receiver catches the ball out of bounds is not a reception.
     
  20. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    7,574
    Likes Received:
    9,936

    Again, you are jumping in the middle of a different thread with a completely opposite subject. The assertion was made that we would have lost the game against the Broncos had they call his fumble, bad officiating, but completely ignoring the shit refs against NE that cost us 10 points . If we are talking about his performance I totally agree, but that was not the discussion at all. That was truly a bad throw. He threw a bunch of ill advised balls for sure, but when someone jumps in and tell me that was an interception, never mind it was out of bounds, that’s just semantics, forgive if I call it BS, no more than WR catching it out of bounds is semantics.[/QUOTE]
     
    Noam likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page