(Sorry, long post, but i got to thinking over a few beverages) Yeah, you ran a 4.88 40 yard dash, bench pressed 225 pounds 42 times and you weigh 310. You know what that says to me? You run pretty fast for a big guy and no one is every going to call you weak, at least not to your face. But is that why the Jets should draft you? If the jets learned something in the past five years, I've hoped they learned not to draft workout warriors, guys who's stats at the combines overshadowed what they've accomplished on the field. When they drafted Jonathan Vilma, he wasn't the biggest middle linebacker, heck i don't even think he was the fastest, but he was the best football playing middle linebacker available in the first round. I can only hope that the jets don't make a mistake when drafting this year and pick guys who are first in speed and strength and last when it comes to making plays and character on the field. When number four comes round, i don't see a mistake taking D'Brickshaw Ferguson, but i wonder about Mario Williams and his "freakish athletic abilities". I don't see Vince Young's wonderlic score but i do see his commanding performance at the rose bowl. I don't see Leinart's arm strength(although i do wonder if he wants to hang out more with Paris Hilton than hang out at a practice facility) but i do see a national championship on his resume. Pick players first vs. athletes second. Pick wisely cause I'm tired of rebuilding, tired of 3-13 and 4-12. I got used to the playoffs(no matter how painful missed field goal attempts are). I'd like a lot of loud cheers on draft day instead of moaning. And oh yeah, don't remind me that Blair Thomas was one of best on field rushers in PSU history(2nd all time in yardage)(he coaches RB's at Temple now)(pretty much blows my theory here to hell)(oh well).
agreed to a certain extent, but sometimes performance can be misleading. How well would Young have done vs. NFL players scrambling around during the Rose bowl? It's not all aboout stats and your accomplishment, but a projection using BOTH combine tests and history. I don't want Young because of his crappy wonderlic score. I want someone (espeically with the #4) who excelled in both their collegiate years and their combines
I agree on some points... But in today's game everyone you play against is fast and strong. I would love mario williams, but he probably won't be there at 4 now, And ferguson is from long island... He would feel oh so comfortable as a jet, he probably won't let the money go to his head and actually perform. I just don't see any other player as ajet at 4 other than mario or ferguson, if we trade down, then that's another discussion. Leinart? I don't know if drafting a QB at 4 is in the jets radar either, when you have penny and ramsey, maybe drafting a QB next year or drafting the QB another round other than the first.
At 4 we should take a guy who coordinators will gameplan around. Vernon Davis. Yes I know we've taken our fair share of TE's in the first round and had rather bad luck; but this guy isn't just being a workout warrior. He was outstanding playing the game too, and was projected top 15 pick before any of the combine stuff started! Imagine having a TE who runs a 4.38 40, and who has hands like glue. He's the kind of guy that makes any QB better. 4)Davis 29) McNeill 35) Lawson/Carpenter/Howard (in that order whoever's available) 71) Max Jean Gilles 97) Jason Avant
Both Vernon Davis and Mario Williams did great in the ncaa last year Williams named sports illustated all-american and had 13 sacks Davis all-acc and all-american te
Smelling out players with intangibles, sleepers that translate into big playmakers taken from much further down the draft ladder is where football smarts prevail. Like I always say, it's still a crapshoot at best for the most part. You never do know if a player can transfer his skill set to the NFL as you hope, ESPECIALLY guys with CAN'T LOSE written all over them. "Computer analysis", which I think DETRACTS from the old-fashioned human element of the "nose" for a player, the question remains how much it ACTUALLY nails a successful projection. I'm not overly convinced. The Stock Market, Horse Racing, the NFL Draft...way too many variables.
He had 13 sacks last year, BUT 10 of them came in 3 games against horrible offensive lines. Maryland - 4 sacks Southern Mississppi - 3 sacks Wake Forest - 3 sacks He then gets shutdown or contained by other crappy offensive lines with the exception of 3 teams. Virginia Tech - 0 sacks Boston College - 0 sacks Eastern Kentucky - 0 sacks Georgia Tech - 0 sacks Clemson - 0 sacks University of South Florida(former division 2A team) - 1 sack Middle Tennessee - 1 sack North Carolina - 1 sack Florida State - 0 sack Of these teams, only 3 of them had good lines(Florida State, VT, and BC, and BC has an NFL prospect T in Jeremy Trueblood). All the other teams dont scream dominating offensive lines to me. Being shutout or being mediocre in 9 out of 12 games doesnt scream PLAYMAKER to me. Lets call it how it is. People want him because of his size and combine numbers, not because of his productivity.
Gotta Admit This is the thing that scares me about Mario Based on size and combines, it looks good, but damn it doesn't seem like it has translated to games. As good as Julius Peppers is supposed to be, Julius still hasn't put up that monster year. Not saying that Julius Peppers is not good, but I would rather the DE that I'm looking to draft be compared to Michael Strahan or Reggie White. I would feel alot more comfortable.
I highly doubt the jets will use a high pick as 4 to pick a TE.... We have baker who showed he can be real good, and jolley showed in one game so far that he can catch for over 100 yards... Both capable TE's and i think those type of players are enough, we need a WR more than a TE right now.. Mario, fergy, bush....are the only player's i would take with 4.
Exactly one game, Baker showed in one game what he could , but in the rest of the 14 games Jolley and Baker didnt do anything.I'm not satisfied with one game each from these guys per season.
First, I don't think you can judge a player solely on sacks. What up QB hurries, pressure, hitting the QB? Second, he had to beat Manny Lawson and John McCargo to the QB on every play. Third, DEs don't necessarily get a sack in everygame. Most of the time there production does come in bunches but it is the fear and attention that must be paid to them that is truly deserving of recognition.
Guys who never coached, like Bradway, tend to love the scouting numbers from Combines. Coaches peek at those but analyze performance a lot more. Parcells, Bellichek, Mangini are from the same mentality and, likely, Mangini will see to it that game production is a big aprt of who we pick.
1. I've seen him play. I've seen him dominate like a monster once(in the Maryland game) and I've seen him get shut the f*&$ down. Hes been contained/shutdown more than hes been the superstar playmaker people make him out to be. 2. well look up his numbers and you be the judge. Eastern Kentucky(A Division 2A team!) - 0 sacks 1 tackle 3 assists (ooooh quaking in my boots) Georgia Tech - 0 sacks 0 tackles 2 assists (what a monster) Clemson - 0 sacks 1 tackle 3 assists (Hes unstoppable) Boston College - 0 sacks 4 tackles (BC has an NFL caliber Tackle, so maybe they had him blocking Mario) Florida State - 0 sacks 0 tackles 3 assists University of Southern Florida(former Division 2A team) - 1 sacks 5 tackles 2 assists North Carolina - 1 sack 2 tackles 3 assists Middle Tennessee - 1 sack 3 tackles 5 assists Maryland - 4 sacks 5 tackles 3 assists Wake Forest - 3 sacks 4 tackles 1 assist Souther Mississippi - 3 sacks 7 tackles 4 assists Virginia Tech - 0 sacks 1 tackle 3 assists Ok so lets analyze: Mario Williams best performances came against a crappy team(Wake Forest), a losing team(Maryland), and a decent team(Southern Miss). 3 good games against poor to questionable competition. Mario Williams got shutdown/contained by crappy teams. Eastern Kentucky, a division 2A team btw, shut him down. You would think against a Division 2A team he wouldve tore them a new one. North Carolina(5-6 losing record) contained him. Middle Tennessee contained him(4-7 losing record, they really blow). University of Southern Florida, a former Division 2A team contained him(USF did play better than expected though,6-6) Now against GOOD competition, he might as well took a siesta, cause he did nada. Georgia Tech shut him down. Clemson shut him down. Florida State shut him down. Boston College shut him down. Im not some schmuck who dislikes Mario for no reason. I've seen him play. I knew about him since last year. When you watch a game, you know who are the players you should be watching. Either Mario Williams has "motor" issues or plays when he wants to play, or hes just overrated. People talk about Mario Williams like hes Terrel Suggs in college, tearing defenses apart but fact is, he hasnt delivered in college the way you'd expect a top 4 pick to deliver. Now all the hoopla came about Mario after the combine, not before. You do the math.
Elvis Dumervil delivered in college. Would you pick him in the top 4? I am not a big workout warrior guy, I like to take proven winners with football abilities that can't be measured (Vilma). But with your high pick, potential has to be taken into account because let's be honest, these players are still kids. I actually don't even want Mario Williams, I favor Brick right now but think that too often people look at a player's workout and automatically assume that if it was a great workout, then he didn't produce in college. Also I stand by my opinion that it would have been tough for him to dominate every game with sacks when he plays next to Manny Lawson (Who I want way more than Mario) and John McCargo.
Also could you please put up a link for the data, I was looking for it earlier but couldn't find it on ESPN and NCState websites.
Just because because u dont get sacks doesnt mean u dont provide pressure. Im not sayin sacks are overrated but they are sometimes misleading. The reason I think John Abraham is a top 3 de in the league is because he always provides pressure to the qb, like Peppers and Freeney do. Just because u dont get to qb doesnt mean u arent doing anything.
Exactly, and since I subscribe tot the original poster's theory, I think either of them would be a good pick (although I don't think TE is a pressing need). An example of a workout warrior who I do NOT want would be Jay Cutler. Great, the guy has the strongest arm in the draft and can bench press 225 25 times or something like that. I want a Qb who has REALLY performed, not one that shows great 'potential' but was 'held-back' by his supporting cast. If we go Qb at 4 it better be Young or Leinart.
I wouldnt draft any DE at the #4 spot, seeing how we are running a 3-4 and basically need a big body to take up blocks and open up gaps. Mario didnt razzle and dazzle in a 4-3 where the DEs could excel, how is he gonna deliver in a 3-4. Besides Seymour, there isnt any superstar 3-4 DEs, for good reason. Nor would I draft a QB from Texas Tech or Hawaii. In Dumi's case, you dont draft a guy at the 4th overall pick that can be had in the 4th rd. My example was Terrell Suggs, for good reason. Dumervil produced in college, but is tremendously undersized and slow(for his size). Terrell Suggs on the other hand delivered against good competition(on a record setting level) and is a Prototypical DE. Suggs was the total package. Dumervil isnt. Mario Williams isnt the total package either. Its not like I never seen Mario Williams play. Its not like i did a quick over view of him. People talk as if Mario Williams is the next Lawrence Taylor/Reggie White, but i dont think LT and Reggie got shutdown by a Division 2A team. Doesnt that bug you? Isnt it weird that his numbers seem kinda misleading. 14 sacks sounds impressive, but then when you really look at them theyre kinda padded. When he played against good competition, he got shutdown. and to find the stats, for any player(except O-Line) go to the team website and look for there schedule. they'll still have last years schedule up with the game stats for each game. Its kinda hard to read(really unorganized, but its there).
umm, no again. Manny Lawson had 9 sacks and John McCargo had a whopping zero sacks. Manny Lawson was more consistent though, and played well except against Eastern Kentucky and Georgia Tech. Manny Lawson's number: VT - 1 sack 2 tackles 3 assist E. Kentucy - 0 sacks 1 tackle 1 assist N. Carolina - 2 sacks 2 tackles 5 assist Georgia Tech - 0 sacks 2 tackles 2 assist Clemson - 0 sacks 3 tackles 2 assist Wake Forest - 0 sacks 7 tackles 2 assist S. Miss - 1 sack 2 tackles 1 assist Florida State - 1 sack 4 tackles 1 assist BC - 1 sack 5 tackles 3 assist(he got a sack and put up good numbers considering he was up against Jeremy Trueblood) Mid Tenn - 1 sack 4 tackles 4 assist Maryland - 1 sack 1 tackle 1 assist USF - 1 sack 5 tackles 0 assist im not gonna bother with McCargos numbers because they were incredibly weak and he missed 5 games. He finished the season with 0 sacks 10 tackles and 14 assists. Mario Williams' overall numbers on the season : 13 sacks 33 tackles 32 assists Manny Lawson's overall numbers on the season: 9 sacks 38 tackles 25 assists its not like Mario Williams was head and shoulders better than Manny Lawson, but Mario is tagged a top 4 pick and Manny Lawson is a mid 1st rounder to early 2nd rounder. I like Manny Lawson personally, more so because hes not gonna cost us the 4th overall pick in the draft(a pick that will make or break us) and mainly because we would be utilizing him as a pass rushing OLB, somethings he suited for and something he could excel doing. I feel Mario Williams is a square peg we would try to fit into a round hole
