With the 10th pick..

Discussion in 'Draft' started by KY Jets Fan, Jan 7, 2024.

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Who do you pick if all these are still available at Pick#10

  1. Rome Odunze (WR)

    30.2%
  2. Brock Bowers (TE)

    17.5%
  3. Fashanu or another OL

    41.3%
  4. I rather trade down if these are my choices

    11.1%
  1. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    He wasn't the best.

    in 2023 it was Daniels and 2022 Hookier:
    https://www.secsports.com/news/2022/12/2022-sec-football-awards-announced
    https://www.secsports.com/news/2023/12/2023-sec-football-awards-announced

    And therein lies the point: when it comes to Bowers, there is a lot of exaggeration. He is the best, he is a WR, etc, when it is simply not true. He wasn't voted the best, and he is a TE, not WR. And TEs in NFL are valued about half of a WR, and for a good reason. It's a great debate, but facts are facts.
     
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  2. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    they give awards like that to QBs everybody knows that.

    Brock Bowers lead his team to 2 national titles and actually won the Mackey Award for best TE in the whole land twice

    But yeah, Hendon Hooker was a nice little player too..
     
  3. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Of course. That highlights positional value, which I have been trying to do as well. The best TE in SEC does not mean the best player. Far from it.
     
  4. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Idk, I watched a lot of SEC ball and I actually dislike the Georgia Bulldawgs a lot, perhaps more than anyone, but damn was he good as hell. Fuckin eats up defenses

    I didn't feel the same impact from Hooker. Daniels was good though. Toss up there. I think I'd still give it to Bowers as better since he had fratboy nerds throwing it to him and Daniels had a stud like Nabers to help him. But that one is a worthy discussion.
     
    #1164 BrowningNagle, Apr 11, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
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  5. NJJets

    NJJets Well-Known Member

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    I was responding to someone saying that he compares to Taysom Hill and that it would be great if we got that kind of production, which is disastrous at 10. Is the guy a TE or not? Can he run full routes or are we expecting to continue the 50% receptions behind the LOS. He’s an athlete that outperformed college level opponents with athleticism. Athleticism alone doesn’t mean squat in the NFL. I’m not saying he’s a bad player, quite the contrary. But a player at 10 overall at the minimum should have a position in the NFL, and the ability to handle all aspects of that position. Is Bowers comparable to Gronk or Kelce? Does he block like them? Run routes like them? Have an understanding of football like them? Then sure, take him at 10. If his blocking isn’t up to par for a full time TE, then absolutely not. I want a complete player at 10 overall, not a guy that won with athleticism alone in college.
     
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  6. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    have you ever watched him play? Serious question because you are asking a lot of weird questions. Some of them nobody here could even answer like "understanding of football" WTF is that

    No he's not Gronkowski. I think he's similar to Aaron Hernandez though, who, if he wasn't a murderer and a psychopath, may have had an incredible NFL career. Bowers isn't a murderer or a psychopath by all accounts, he appears to be the opposite actually, well grounded and an academic all-american
     
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  7. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    People underestimate just how bad Hack really is. This is the same guy, who didn't figure out until second half of the season that Breece can catch the ball. And this is after he was a great pass catcher the year before. Two worse offenses in two years for two teams. Now we are asking to revamp the play book for a completely different style. Rodgers will call the plays, it's true, but that's the GB play-book, which didn't really feature TEs. I feel better about Brock after focusing on his games pre injury, but still not at #10 and not for our specific situation.
     
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  8. NJJets

    NJJets Well-Known Member

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    Ummm, I was pounding the table asking whether Zach had an understanding of football before he was drafted and got the same kind of sarcastic nonsense. Yes, does Bowers know football? UGA sure doesn’t strike me as an NFL pro style offense, and half this guys receptions we behind the LOS. It’s literally the college version or “hey big fast dude, go make big fast dude plays for us”. That shit goes on in college all the time, and those players show up in the NFL with no idea how concepts work, route trees, blocking assignments, any of it. And they usually suck and bust out.
     
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  9. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    ... yeah I think he knows a little about football, considering he's good at it and hes a smart kid. He's not a big dumb jock, ironically like Gronkowski, whom you seem to like

    Bowers' offensive coordinator was Todd Monken, who is a NFL coordinator (Browns, Bucs, Ravens) that ran a pro-style system. So there goes that theory too
     
    #1169 BrowningNagle, Apr 11, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  10. IDFjet

    IDFjet Well-Known Member

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    Seriously man, you should not be talking about my opinion under any circumstances--sorry to the board for the forwardness but you're out of line with reality and have little ability at drawing appropriate conclusions as demonstrated by obvious occurrences that need not be harped upon.

    Plus your childish attempt to isolate the poster is transparent and pathetic.
     
  11. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    What’s that matter so much though? Tightend is one of those positions where you can literally be a big dumb animal and just run fast and be strong.

    I mean if Travis Kelce’s dumbass can find a hole in a zone, I’m sure Bowers can.

    It’s a bit different than playing quarterback in the NFL.
     
  12. IDFjet

    IDFjet Well-Known Member

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    You make a good point--why management could not tell ZW was over his head is something I can't understand--Apparently there's no easy test
     
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  13. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    I am not creaming over Odunze, only Nabers :). The problem is that because we won a meaningless game at the end, we are not going to get Nabers or Alt without a trade up and are basically in the second tier of top 10. Still top 10 though, and positional value matters. OT or WR does not need to be exceptional to be a top 10 pick. Do you think GW was exceptional prospect when he was drafted? Darnell Wright? Both guys made their teams very happy at #10.

    As far as Odunze, I personally would take top 3 OTs over him, but as far as a weapon, he did line up outside 82% of the time, which does not make his job any easier compared to Brock. Led the League in total yards and contested catches, dropped 3 balls all year on 140 targets and for his size the time was not bad. I personally prefer separators, so I would not be screaming of joy if we get him, but there is a lot to like at a premium position, and he is a definitely a top 15 pick, maybe even a bit higher. I certainly like him more than Bowers, who really only lined up as a slot with large % of catches behind scrimmage. With Odunze we can play GW in a slot a lot, where he can do major damage too.

    As far as OTs, if we can get a solid LT starter for next 10 years, that's a home run of a pick at 10. And I think Olu and Latham could be solid 1st year and better than average thereafter. Positional values matters a lot. Just take a look how much solid and not spectacular OTs make on the market.

    Come on now, you would not take second GW if you had a chance? Imagine two GWs and Mike Williams on the roster? Where do I sign up? Just wondering, hypothetically anyone else does not like us to sign up for guaranteed GW clone if WR is the pick?
     
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  14. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
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    I'm not sure that means anything anymore. Over the last 15-20 years, the NFL has been stealing from each new college trend.
     
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  15. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
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    I'm absolutely with you about draft season exaggeration. I'm obviously biased, but Bowers has earned every bit of his praise. Dude controlled games against top talent. Georgia was still a run-first team, and stacking up wins. I bet most people would struggle to name a UGA running back. Teams put so much effort into tracking where Bowers was and what he was doing, it created holes that probably wouldn't have otherwise been there.
     
  16. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I would disagree a little bit though. He was obviously the feature player but defenses had so much focus in not getting railroaded by the offensive line that it may have created space.

    But I will say one thing that’s in somewhat agreement - imagine Bowers on a team like Oregon or Penn State or Ole Miss or Oklahoma State as THE top threat? Georgia didn’t exactly have to use him a ton to beat the piss out of teams.
     
  17. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    There are things that I both agree and things I disagree with in this post.

    Like you, I'm not crazy about Odunze. As I mentioned before, he didn't impress me in the two biggest games of his life (the football playoffs this past season). In spite of that, I think he is probably a top 15 prospect in the draft due both to his talent and the importance of WR. I definitely would take both Alt and Fashanu over him, and maybe Latham and Fautanu as well, although I'd hope to be able to trade down 2-3 spots before I took either Latham or Fautanu. Latham makes me nervous because of all the holding penalties he had at Alabama where he was on such a strong OL overall, and the fact that many, if not most, of Alabama's OL have been disappointments in the NFL. I know that you think Fautanu is better suited to OG, but I disagree with that take. He's just a little shorter than ideal for an OT, but his arm length is fine and he works hard. It's amazing that he was as good as he was in college because his technique was raw and flawed. I know that you have pointed out that he should have dominated younger players at his age, but imo the reason he didn't was because his technique was so bad. Until I learn something to the contrary, I have to believe that that bad technique was due to poor coaching and not a matter of his being lazy or uncoachable. If he was that good, with little or no technique, just imagine how good he could become with good technique.

    I totally agree that positional value matters, and LT is more important than WR, which is more important than TE. I disagree that an OT or WR don't need to be exceptional to be a top 10 pick. I think that's overstating it quite a bit. Yes, positional value sways the weight towards OT and WR over TE or any other position aside from QB, Edge, and CB, but I wouldn't draft any player in the top 10 that I didn't see as exceptional. IMO unless it's just a lousy draft class period, being taken in the top 10 means that the players has HOF potential and should at a minimum potentially be a Pro Bowl player almost every year of his career if not, All Pro.

    I didn't think GW would be as great as he has been, but he has made the Jets and Jets fans very happy, and I', delighted to have been so wrong about him.

    I would not be happy with just a "solid" LT starter for the next 10 years from this draft, not with all the talent and depth at the OT position in this draft. In some other drafts where the talent level is lesser and there is little or no depth in the OT class, yes, I'd be quite happy, if not ecstatic, with a solid 10 year starter. IMO there is no reason why the Jets shouldn't be able to come out of this draft with a potential perennial Pro Bowler, if not All Pro, and potential HOFer picking at #10. Even if both Alt and Fashanu are gone by pick #10, there are still potential excellent OT prospects in Fautanu, Latham, Fuaga, Mims and Guyton based on their demeanor, talent and athletic ability. Even Suamataia, Amegadjie, and Paul could wind up being very, very good OT starters in the NFL (meaning well above average) and not just "solid." Heck, even Barton and Jordan could wind up surprising and being very good OTs.

    I don't think having two of your starting WRs with almost identical talents is ideal, but if we were set at OT for the forseeable future, then I'd welcome Nabers, but I'd prefer someone with a different skill set that would be complementary to G. Wilson, not identical. With two practically identical WRs, the defense can come up with one way to shut them both down. When one has WRs who are complementary and different, shutting down both WRs is not as easy. Similarly, I don't think that Breece's backup should be identical either. That's why I think the Jets should either look for a power back who is good enough to back up Breece, or move Abanikanda up to Breece's backup and and add a powerback as the #3 RB. In that way, the offense has the ultimate flexibility, and can keep opponents guessing as to how the offense is going to attack them. If I have my druthers, I'd truly rather have a WR that brings something different to the table. I love both Leggette and Corley as WRs for the Jets. If he was more developed and had better hands, I'd love Johnny Wilson. I think getting a top OT and either Leggette or Corley as the WR would make the team better than Nabers and a lesser OT.
     
  18. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    The NFL has, but sadly not the Jets, at least not on offense.
     
  19. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
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    Yeah, you’re not wrong about the OL. I thought they underperformed the hype this past year. Your point still stands. You’re right also about what Bowers might look like for a different team. By most fourth quarters, he wasn’t needed and UGA was playing subs on both sides of the ball. Which is also why I keep pointed to his 2023 Auburn game. If Brock Bowers didn’t take control, that game is an L and I’d have a new television still on my credit card statement.
     
  20. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
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    Decent timing - I just got an alert on my phone about Bowers’ 40 time at his workout yesterday. Seems he DID run. Reported as 4.53. Would have been second to the 4.47 by Devin Culp at the Combine. The average among TEs was 4.75.

    Brock Bowers’ 40-yard dash time adequate, ‘explosiveness’ on display in private workout
     
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