Wide Receiver Situation

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by york61, Apr 2, 2022.

  1. jdub03

    jdub03 Active Member

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    The London vs. Burks debate will live forever it seems, lol.

    Question, aside from health, what was one of the biggest issues with our WRs last season? .....Beating press coverage.

    Who is the best in all of College football at beeting Press? .....Drake London, and its not close.

    https://www.pff.com/news/draft-top-five-wide-receivers-press-coverage-2022-nfl-draft

    Additional key stats of the top 8 guys:

    https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/03/30/ny-jets-draft-ranking-the-top-wr-prospects-in-5-key-stats/

    I'll save everyone the long read, London had the best overall score, including adjusted catch rate to determine who has the best hands. Burks finished 3rd overall, and 6th in hands.

    Lastly, forgetting statistics, what each player was asked to do, and the schemes were completely different. Burks was often manufactured touches to get him in space with momentum to take advantage of his speed and strength. This allows for easier catch opportunities and favorable matchupd. Additionally, everyone likes to cite the Alabama game where he outran everyone, well if you watch the play, he pushes off to create space for the catch, as he was covered. Then the trailing CB was cut off by the safety before he could catch him, and he was catching him. The other vertical highlight, against a team that slips my mind, was another push off, that created the separation needed. He struggles against press, so he'd need to play in the slot, or on gadgets, but we have berrios for that role, and Davis struggles against press so this doesn't help the corps.

    London, was asked to win more as a traditional WR role. Yes, he was moved around, but less so in a gadget kinda way. He does create separation on short and intermediate routes well, and many of his contested catches are do to late or inaccurate throws. If you decide to take another look, watch the top of his stem, when he breaks. He is the best in class against press, with a variety of release moves, and physicality. He would allow us to move Davis into the slot, where he would thrive not having to beat press, much like his days in Tennessee with AJ on the outside.

    I get wanting a homerun threat, and I do too (can double dip in the middle rounds). But London, does offer something we don't have, and that is consistent chain moving production and a redzone threat. Worst case, he could be a dominate Big Slot, if he struggles outside in the NFL, but I think he'll be fine.
     
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  2. jdub03

    jdub03 Active Member

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    Also, London is only 20. He's still gonna get bigger, faster, stronger. The exciting thing is how good of a football player he already is. Great technique and a smart player that knows how to find soft spots in zone coverage. He makes the QBs job much easier.
     
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  3. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    London will be gone by the time we draft for a WR. This should be a Watson vs. Burks thread
     
  4. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t say he was going to be awful I said he’s going to be a bust. He takes huge hits, gets shaken up a lot and already had one of the worst injuries a WR can have. PLUS he showed no break away speed and only has 1 special ability which is 50/50 balls. Nothing else is special. Absolutely nothing. Catching 10 balls in game that are 10 yard hooks or ins/outs is routine. To even make a collage squad you need to make those catches.
     
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  5. NJJets

    NJJets Well-Known Member

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    This is dead on accurate. I’m not a fan of Zach as a player honestly, I didn’t like him as a prospect, and I definitely don’t like him after his rookie season. But I do want him to be successful or out of the way. The best way to do that is to stack this team with offensive talent. People seem content to lose while we “continue to build through the draft”. Fine, but if we’re going to lose games can we please try to lose them 35-40 instead of 6-24. I don’t care about defense right now, if Zach shows up to be a franchise QB we’ve got 15 years to build a D. If we don’t give him real support we’re gonna have a good D with a terrible offense, which we’ve had for decades and it gets us nowhere.
     
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  6. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Nania's made up stats don't mean squat to me. What you called manufactured touches, I call versatility and they were being creative getting the ball in Burks hands every way they could. He was the only real weapon they had, and few teams could stop him.
     
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  7. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    All the stat is doing is combining catch % with contested catch %, it's not invalid just because it paints London in a better light than Burks. For what it's worth - even if we throw out that stat entirely London still ends up with the best composite score by a considerable margin. The rest of the stats he references weren't created by him and are widely used everywhere.

    PFF also has London as the best WR in this class. Believing London will be a bust or that he's bad is the outlier opinion here.

    The fact that London is 2 years younger than Burks isn't insignificant either. He's already grading out higher than Burks in a lot of areas with 2 years less experience under his belt. That's especially impressive since London didn't even switch to football full time until a few years ago. It also means that if London ends up being good, we can sign him to an extension when he's only 25 or 26 years old, meaning he'll be in his prime for most of that extension.
     
  8. Section 336

    Section 336 Well-Known Member

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    I do not think the Jets are drafting a WR in the first round.
    I hope some of you stay away from tall buildings on draft night.
     
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  9. MDJets

    MDJets Well-Known Member

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    What are the most important impact position the Jets need right away? IMO, It’s defense side of the ball. WR is too a priority but they can get solid WRs late in 2nd round. The Jets need Pressures and need an edge. If Sauce and Hamilton is still available at 10, got to take them. Jets have built a better offense around Zack but imo not good enough thus I think they can get several solid picks at rounds two and 3, picking up a WRs, a OL and maybe a TE.
     
    #69 MDJets, Apr 3, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  10. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    I don't even think the Jets where really in on Hill. I think they both used each other to up the asking price from Miami. But, call me a conspiracy theorist.
     
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  11. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he has some tools but you got to stay on the field. He is coming off a broken ankle… he can’t run by anyone in the Pac 12 and didn’t show the ability to run more than a few routes. He is super raw. He is the definition of boom or bust. With his skill set he could end up being a Plaxico Burris type player but I just feel he will struggle with injuries and the speed of the game that will ultimately make him bust out.

    Burks has super star written all over him since high school. This isn’t new in the football world.
     
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  12. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    From what I read about it, Miami wasn't even in it until the end.
     
  13. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    He wasn’t asked to run by defenders because he had a noodle armed quarterback when Slovis was in and a true freshman 18 year old when Dart was in who they played it safe with. Big physical receivers like London generally need less separation down the field anyways because they’re so much taller and longer than the corners that are running with them.

    What will prevent London from becoming a star receiver is his potential lack of quick twitch at the top of his routes. He’s a good route runner but is he going to be quick enough in his stop/go in the 10-20 yard range to push receivers off the route with his body movements.

    Not sure why you think he’s going to be injury prone? He snapped his ankle, he didn’t have nagging soft tissue injuries like hamstring or quad issues.

    Forgive me whomever made the comparison but I liked the Brandon Marshall comp for London on the upside.

    What I think will prevent Burks from becoming a star receiver is if he doesn’t polish his route running. He rounds off a lot of routes he runs and he’s not particularly deceptive off the LOS. Davante Adams has shown the entire league how important of a skill that can be.

    High school recruiting status is irrelevant at this point. Burks was a 4 star recruit but so was London and he was also a 3 star recruit in basketball. He’s just as gifted of an athlete.
     
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  14. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    One thing I noticed here is Christian Watson's age is incorrect. Says 21.9, in reality he is 22.9, basically he is turning 23 within a month. That drop rate is pretty alarming for Watson IMO, especially given he was about a 2 year older than most and playing against inferior competition. I am probably still looking at him if he drops to 35/38, given his speed/size combo, but no earlier.
     
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  15. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I view Watson as a project. The jump from that level of competition in that style of offense to the NFL is going to be a big one. The Jets don’t have the luxury of taking another guy with fancy combine numbers and size measurements so that he’ll be a good receiver by year 3.

    We need a much more polished prospect if we’re going to take a player that high.
     
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  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that it was invalid just because it paints London in a better light than Burks. That's absurd. If that's what you think about me and my mental approach, don't bother to respond to any of my posts again in the future. It's invalid because it hasn't been proven valid over time, and it doesn't take into account the differences in the offensive schemes that each played in or the competition that each of them played, just like the other stats don't. It's trying apples and oranges, and stupid.

    PFF are a bunch of morons as far as I'm concerned, and if anything, it validates for me that London sucks and Burks is the better prospect.

    The only thing that you posted above that has any merit whatsoever is the fact that London is 2 years younger. If it were close between the two, then that would be a valid difference maker, but imo it isn't close between the two and Burks is the superior prospect. I wouldn't want London for 10 days, much less 10 years.
     
  17. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    TBH I don't want to use a top 10 pick on any of the WRs available this season. IMO only Wilson is worth it and he isn't a good fit unless were going for the Smurfs V2.

    I think we should wait until our first pick of round two and hope either Williams or Pickens is there.
     
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I'm holding out hope that Douglas lands an elite WR before the draft and gives himself a lot more flexibility in what he'll be able to do draft night. There are some elite defensive players that will be available at the top of the draft, and I think the best use of picks is towards that end, but only if they've already solved the WR#1 hole. If so, they could take KT or Johnson at #4, and then trade back a few spot out of #10 and take Lloyd picking up at least a 2nd rounder this year, plus a 1st or 2nd next year, which they could then use to trade back into the 1st to get someone like Linderbaum or Penning, and then still be able to get a Safety with their next pick like Jaquan Brisker or Dax Hill.
     
  19. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    My point exactly.
     
  20. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    For me it’s his body positioning after the catch. He gets absolutely blown up a lot on tape. There is just so much you can take. Only the ankle injury is on record but there were many instances where he got his bell rung and his teammates needed to help him on his feet. This ties into the twitch your talking about. His hands are a concern as he straight up drops/whiffs on balls coming his way.

    I don’t see Brandon Marshall at all to be completely honest. BM body type was much thicker and he had the ability to beat corners on vertical routes. I haven’t seen that once from London. I see Plaxico Burris as his ceiling and that’s being generous because Plaxico could also get separation down the field. London will be a red zone jump ball specialist similar to Jimmy Graham when he was with Saints/Seattle had him. You can line him up outside 1-1 and throw the jump ball fade and he can come down with it. He can also win with back shoulder throws on 3rd down with his ability to box out defenders.

    When I watch Burks I have that excitement of playmaking ability. It just pops off the screen. His route running isn’t polished but it’s good enough to run every route in the tree. His hands are really good combined with very good football speed. His body type is built to play in the NFL at 6’2” 225. I like players that are on the field that are go to guys. Burks had significant success against top teams in the country as well. In the SEC he showed dominant ability to take over games. I see Andre Johnson with Burks.
     
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