I know I started a new thread for this, but I didn't want it getting stuck on the back page of an insane-post filled thread. This is only the third thread I have ever started as a member here, so I hope you all understand. There is something Atlanta fans don't seem to realize with all of their posturing here the past week or so. Here is the be-all, and end-all of the argument. The Jets tagged John Abraham as the Franchise player this year, just as they did last year. He currently stands to make over a million dollars this coming year, thanks to the value of the tag. Notice the Jets did not designate him as the Transition player, where he would not count against the cap, even when we were cap-strapped. This FO knew what they were dealing with. Why would that change now? Plain and simple, I know Atlanta fans don't want to hear it, but JAbe is more than worth the #15 pick we are demanding. I know you all have big heads right now because you managed to hang on to Schaub. Big deal. The fact is, we wanted him, but we can still draft a #1 QB with our #4 pick. You did not hold the cards in that deal either. Do you guys think the Ramsey deal was consumated because Mangini was desperate to fill a hole in the roster? Nope, Ramsey was brought in to show you guys we mean business. Meet our demands, or we find another option. Period. Right now, the best offer on the table is for a #31 pick, near the end of round 1. Why, in any way, shape, or form, would we choose to accept less than that from you, simply because Abe is adamant about playing for you? Abraham has a total amount of zero leverage in this situation. Who does he hurt by telling us he will sit out TC come July if he doesn't get his deal? I am truly starting to believe that the Mangini will say "No problem Abe, stay home for camp. Just be on time for Opening Day." Then, when he shows up, he can get sit his ass on the bench for 16 games. Why not? If we have to pay him to act like a child, we will treat him like a child. Does he honestly believe he will command top-tier money after riding the bench for a full year? Sorry Abe, your idle threats are just that... Not to mention, if the Jets can somehow fabricate a reason for disciplinary action, Abe may just find out that the new TO rule hurts him more than helps him. If the Jets can find a reason to suspend him, he loses 4 games worth of pay. A quarter of $8M is $2M. So much for that shiny new franchise tender huh Abe? What you guys need to realize is that Abe is the Property of the New York Jets. There is no exception to that. In reality, we are fully justified right now to DEMAND both your FIRST ROUND this year, and your FIRST ROUND next year. Whether you like it or not, that is the way it goes. This is the point of the Franchise tag. It is wholly meant to protect a team's most valued player, whom the Jets have decided John Abraham is. You can choose to deal with our demands, or you can walk away from the table. Obviously, you want Abe, otherwise, this game would have ended a few days ago, and Abe would be flapping his wings after every sack for the next 4-6 years in the rain. Plain and simple, you can get pissed off all you want, but Abe is an elite DE in this league, and he is ours. He goes where WE deem the best deal to be from. He has almost no right to go where he wants. Of course, we can turn around and tell Abe, "Go ahead, sign that offer sheet." Then when he does, we can collect your next two #1 picks. Don't worry boys, no bow necessary. Just leave them on the podium in April and we will send a ballboy to pick them up. Thanks. So drop your whining and posturing like you have the upper hand here because you don't. The ball is in our court right now. Here are the scenarios I see us involved in over the next couple of weeks: 1) Atlanta balks, we trade Abe to Seattle for the #31, and their 3rd and 4th next year. 2) Atlanta bites, we trade Abe to Atlanta for this year's #15, and next year's 2nd rounder. 3) We tell Abe, "Buy a rain coat, but not for the Seattle weather. You are riding the bench in front of some pretty pissed off fans for 4 months in the New Jersey cold. We're pretty sure there will be some rotten food items hurled your way, and we wouldn't want you to get dirty." 4) Abe relents, and apologizes to the organization. He tells Mangini that if there is a place for him in the 3-4 hybrid he is planning, he would be honored to remain with the team that gave him as many opportunities to be the elite player he is today. My honest hope would be option 4, however, I ordered the outcomes in the order I believe they are possible. Quite frankly, I think you guys would need to pony up more than our original demands to acquire him at this point. What no one seems to realize is that this new regime is no-nonsense. They know they have a spotlight on them and the whole league is watching. If they come out on top, they look like geniuses. If they crumble, they are as good as sunk. No matter what, they will not relent. If you aren't familiar with the NY media, then you can't understand. Right now, the media is all over them to do right by the team, and not give in. There was an article yesterday suggesting that the Jets just sign Abe long-term and be done with it. We would still be sitting a cool $15M under the cap, with a nice draft pick waiting for us at #4.
great post finally summing various threads into one post. honestly id like to have him finish his career here, but we all know that wont be happening. its either atl's 1st round, seattles 1st round, or the bench for abraham.
Well said. You also forgot to mention, that by ATL agreeing to a huge contract with Abraham first, they are admitting he is a 1st round talent . So now they are basically saying "Yeah he is a first round talent and we will pay him accordingly, but you Jets should settle for a 2nd, and maybe a 3rd, anyway." That is just really bad negotiating, why tip your hand when you didn't have to? ATL set the market and now they are crying about it.
well said. the only thing i want to ask is for the #2 option, to you intend that to be their second rounder this year, or first? If that's suppose to be ATL's 1st rounder this year, wouldn't we want Seattle's 2nd rounder next year too instead of third if #1 happened? Just curious about what you meant by that.
Thanks guys. Yeah dabrowski1, I really hadn't thought about it that way, but you are exactly right. I was really concentrating on the factual information at hand, and what it's effect on the whole process would be. I think it's hillarious that there is not one post by an Atlanta fan yet. I specifically put their city name in the thread title to get their attention. Obviously, there isn't much left to say.
Alio - Great post!!!! Perhaps a mod can sticky this and delete all Abe threads from now until eternity! Also this should be required reading for all Atlanta fans before the sign-up to TGG to post.
Yeah I can understand the question. I am basing this on some theory actually. I figure that there had to be some later picks involved next year between Seattle and the Jets in the deal they already agreed to. I don't see the Jets playing nice with Atlanta anymore at this point. We asked for Scahub, and they thumbed their noses. We said, okay. We asked for the first rounder, and they thumbed their noses. We said okay. First we grabbed Ramsey for a pittance, then we dealt with Seattle, who were obviously more serious about Abe's true value in the first place. I don't think the Jets played hardball with Seattle, given their attitude from the very start. I am pretty sure they will play tough with Atlanta at this point, if no other reason than to save face. Honestly, my opinion is that if we trade Abe, we should walk away with this year's #1 from whatever team, then either next year's one, or a combination of next year's 2nd and 4th, or 3rd, 4th, and 5th, to go along with this year's one.
i really think atlanta will cave it's not often i'm able to think such positive thoughts about the jets
i haven't been following so closely the past week or so, but I'm under the impression that Abe doesn't want to go to Seattle. Is this true? And if so, doesn't he have the last word of where he's dealt? Also, if he does go to Seattle, do you see us trading down and picking up an extra 2nd Rounder or would we still choose at 31? The dropoff from that spot to early-mid R2 isn't signifcant, so why pay R1 money there, unless there's someone who is unexpectedly there that we figure won't last until our next pick (in R2). cheers
Great post. You summed up what I am thinking as well. I hope he ends up a Jet and plays with heart. I think he played well last year. He showed us (and everybody else) he is for real. Even though he is a jerk, I'd still be happy to see him on the Jets D.
One thing. The Jets will not pay Abraham $8 million to ride the bench. If he stays, whether he is forced to stay or not, he will play. He is too good to ride the pine, even in a 3-4.
Atlanta has to cave. They have already done the hard part - reach a contract agreement with Abe. They want Abe and Abe wants the Falcons. The only thing the Falcons need to do is match the demands of Tangini or they will lose the player they have been coveting. Its nice to be on the other side of this for a change.
Atlanta will cave but the amount of picks you have listed above is ridiculous,,, they are never getting multiple high picks. If they got a 15, they'd do cartwheels, wouldn't be getting a 2nd round pick on top of it. That will never happen. And Seattle, if they give 31,, ,they ain't giving anything more like a 3 and 4 rounder also.
Please do your homework before typing all of this information. 1st off- Abraham never did sign the new tender, so technically he is acting as FA. Come this friday, which is the deadline for all Franchise player to deal,if no deal has been made then the tag will be removed. However, we still have the rights to Abraham. As I've said before and I will repeat it again, do we (coaches/GM) really want him on the team next year. If they are just calling his bluff, then we (Jets) will blink. Also, remember that Seattle plays a huge part in this thing as well; meanwhile, if Seattle signs Peterson and a couple other players then we lesser and lesser leverage. Likewise, If Seattle wins the trail w/Hutchinson then the deal between Seattle and us are probably doomed anyways. Therefore, the longer we play hard ball with Atlanta, and that's fine that we show some back bone, but teams will have had all their FA players signed then the Cap $$$ will no longer be available to sign a Abraham. Bottomline: Abraham could decide that he doesn't want to play in Seattle, so if thats the case then we'd better be prepared to deal with the reprecussions of having a cancer in the locker room, that is if we really are prepared to deal with him in a Jet uniform in 2006.
JabbaTheJet has made a few posts over the past few days about this. There is actually first round talent down to around the 40th pick, at which time the talent slips dramatically. He is a student of the draft, and he has made perfect sense so far, so I tend to believe what he says. It would make the most sense to either pick at 31, after picking 4th, or use one, the other, or both first rounders to stockpile for next year. Either way I would be happy. If we take the 15 from Atlanta, I would either parlay that into a first rounder or a second and third (all next year) or use it to pick one of the studs in this draft.
EXACTLY...i was just having this argument with an idiot giant fan over a belated corned beaf and cabbage dinner.....they are so willing to pay him ginosterous money because they know hes a great talent.....but since they have to endure the hardship of paying the big bucks then WE should give them a break on the compensation??????thats bizzaro world thinking in my opinion.....also great post alio.....i ssay we just dig in and be as stubborn as mules
Do my homework eh? Like I said, if he signs elsewhere, without a trade being set up, the team that purchases his services owes us two number 1's. So go ahead Abe, sign with Atlanta before we make a deal. That's fine by me. We will enjoy those picks. As far as running out of time, until we say so, he is ours. We can strong-arm him into playing here next year, whether he likes it or not. If he wants to get something beyond the tender, he either goes where we tell him, or he stays here, and plays nice with our FO. I can't see any team being crazy enough to risk their #1's for the next two drafts on any player, much less Abe. As far as a cancer in the locker room. Like I said, if he wants to be the first player to get the TO rule treatment, that's just fine. If he really wants to sacrifice $2M in cash, that's his business.
I said Seattle would probably have packaged a 3rd or 4th rounder for next year in with the 31. I said a second rounder next year from Atlanta, along with the #1 this year, since we are in hardball mode now. Given that Abe is worth 2 #1's as I already detailed, and we already have an honestly serious offer on the table, it's not too much to ask. Or, they could give us their second and third this year, and their second and third next year, but that would be the ABSOLUTE minimum I would demand if I were the Tangini.
