For the past week, all we've heard from a bunch of posters is that there is no basis or purpose to compare Favre to Pennington. Worse yet, we have heard that "real" Jet fans should not make this comparison because Favre is here and Pennington is not. It is completely appropriate for Jet fans to analyze and, if they want to, criticize, the huge decision the Jets made in August to trade for Favre and cut Pennington. That move not only shaped the Jet franchise for this season, but is going to impact the Jets for years to come. No fan can or should blindly accept every move by the FO and never look back, and this is no exception. With the Jets locked in a nip and tuck battle for the division against the Pennington-led Dolphins for the division all year and with the Jets playing the Dolphins and Pennington for a potential division title Sunday, the comparison between the QBs is incredibly relevant. It is idiotic not to see that. I am in no way rooting for the Jets to lose Sunday, nor will I root for Pennington. But, it does not make someone less of a Jet fan to believe that the Jets made a mistake with Favre/Pennington move. That is what being a fan, and what places like this board are about. Questioning the move is no different than questioning whether the Jets should keep Mangini or any other coach (or whether he should have been hired), or whether the Jets play-calling has been good or bad, or whether Golston was a good pick, or any other decision the Jets have made in the past that has impacted this season. These types of things are questioned all the time, on this board and elsewhere. Why is the QB comparison out of bounds somehow when it is the 800 lb gorilla in the room this season, and especially this week? The circumstances of this week's game and the way the season has played out make the Favre-Pennington comparisons inevitable. Then when you add in the impact on the Jets' future - that the Jets will either have a washed up 40 year-old with no arm at QB or no experienced QB at all - and you have to conclude that the decision to go with Favre was huge and may impact the team for years. To ignore or dismiss the comparison because Pennington is a Dolphin or because Pennington had a bad year last year or because Favre won a SB in 1996 is ignorant. Moreover, it is a rationalization. To say that a Jet fan can't even hold the opinion that the QB move was a mistake is insulting to the intelligence of a thinking Jet fan. It is no different than stating that nobody should question Mangini because he's our coach and that's that. The fact is, the QB move was a mistake. Pennington is having a better year with inferior talent. Favre is doing less with more as a Jet than Pennington ever did. And most of all, it is apparent now that Pennington was unfairly criticized by a Jet fan base. Pennington's play last year was a function of the horrible team he played on and not his talents. That should be clear to any football fan at this point. And, to move beyond the Pennington issue, the Jets wasted a year on a pipe dream with a fading QB and lost the opportunity to groom one of the younger QBs on the roster. This is a talented team, despite this collapse, that should contend for years to come, except now it will not have a QB next year and beyond. I want the Jets to win Sunday. I have my playoff tickets in an envelope on my desk and would like to use them. I would like to say the Jets made the right move. I just know they did not, and I don't want to be told that I can't hold that opinion or talk about it today or after the game.
My only problem with that argument is that I think there's no way Chad's successful this year in New York. He needed a change of scenery and new coaches, and a fan base that wouldn't kill him for making 5 yard completions. Chad was never going to lead the Jets to a Super Bowl; it just wasn't meant to be. Now, Favre probably isn't going to lead us to one either, but the acquisition of Favre accelerates the process of getting a QB for the future, and knowing what we knew then he seemed like a very good option.
While I was always a huge Pennington fan and hated to see him go, you really can't say just because he's having a great year in Miami means his numbers would have been the same with the Jets and we'd be at least 10-5 right now.
I agree, good post. It is a concern and you should discuss it if you want. My whole thing is its NOT the only reason the Jets are losing. So why such an obsession with Pennington. Like if he was here, we'd be FOR SURE better than 9-6. Would he fix all our other problems like head coaching, the run d, the pass d, the playcalling, etc? Though New York ranks sixth against the run, since Nov. 30 the Jets have allowed 129 yards to Denver's Peyton Hillis, 127 to Buffalo's Marshawn Lynch and on Sunday, 116 to Seattle's Maurice Morris. And Seattle started five offensive linemen who were backups or on the practice squad in September. The Jets' biggest weakness is their 29th-ranked pass defense, and CBS' Rich Gannon said they're especially vulnerable in the middle of the field. But how many people actually discuss this stuff? Look at the main board. Everyone just focus's on Favre and everything in the world is his fault. 116 yards to Maurice Moriss. AND when they had 5 back ups as O-lineman. 129 yards to Denver. But you would never know any of that because everyone just blames every game and moment on Favre - look at this board. "Favre shouldn't have thrown it deep to Coles on 4th and 4". Unless you were there live and saw that he had someone else wide open, how do you know? He's become the ultimate scapegoat. Someone posted about how Favre should have put less on the ball when Cotchery had that huge drop against Denver because it was "wet". Your in the NFL! Favre has been throwing those passes in snow and cold in Lambeau in January and people make catches. I agree Pennington is playing better than Favre right now but there are other issues too and the entire season is not Favre's fault IMO. If you want you can say if Pennington was here, the run offense would be even better or the WR's would have even better numbers and Mangini would have changed his offense, etc. But Favre has nothing to do with the defense. And its annoying that people are actually cheering against the Jets because of Pennington.
And it was a big risk obviously but it was high reward. The guy threw for 4,000+ yards and 28 TD's last year. If it didn't work out, it didn't work out. But I'm glad this franchise took a shot. If we beat the Phins on Sunday, they will be in the same position as us, watching the playoffs on TV. So the Pennington debate is all for not.
If that were the case, the Jets should have benched Pennington this year and gone with Clemens or Ratliff. Favre actually retarded the process of getting a new QB, not accelerated it because he would never accept a benching (like Pennington did last year) and is known to provide NO assistance to his potential replacements (ask Aaron Rodgers). If the Jets don't make the playoffs, they would have been better off with Clemens or Ratliff at QB this year getting them a year of experience and demonstrating what they could do. All they did this year was try on baseball hats and carry clip boards and lose a year.
The same arguments you make here apply more so to Pennington when he was a Jet. Yet he was the fall guy year after year. And that is what is so frustrating with posts like yours above. Yes, football is the ultimate team game. But Pennington played here with a horrible OL for years and one of the worst defenses I have ever seen. Last year's defense couldn't even get off the field. Teams didn't throw against the Jets because they didn't have to. Pennington had no running game and no time to throw. The same was true in 06, but he took that rag tag gang to the playoffs. Then the criticism was that it was an easy schedule. The soft play of the Jet defense is a concern. But it bothers me not so much from a talent standpoint as from a scheme standpoint. After adding Jenkins,Pace, Golston and Lowery to a defense that already had Harris, Revis and Rhodes, the poor play of this defense is baffling. Last year, the defense could not stop anybody. This year, half way through, this was one of the top defenses in the NFL. Now . . . . But Favre deserves a ton of blame- from poor throws to poor decisions to an inability to put points on the board in these late season games when it is really needed. The real issue is that the Jets didn't need to make the Favre move. QB was not the problem. And the result is that the Jets and thier fans ran a successful, classy, winning QB out of town before giving him a chance to play with an upgraded team and replaced him with a broken down has been that won't be back. What good was that?
I haven't given up on the season. Read my first post. I was commenting on the point that the Favre move somehow accelerated the development of the team's young QBs, which is absurd.
At the time of the trade, I didn't like it, and I still think it was the wrong move. It did do one thing, however, and it proved a theory I had even last year when my friend was complaining about Chad. The passing game was always a short attack with Chad behind center and Schotty calling the plays. Then when Chad got benched and we had Kellen last year, it was the same offense, even though Kellen has a much stronger arm. People were screaming "they're still using Chad's offense with Kellen". Then we got Favre, and the offense was still the same short, underneath stuff, except when Favre heaves it up for grabs. I have STILL seen people claiming they're STILL using Chad's offense. If all of the QB's seem to be running the same offense, it's not the QB that's the problem, it's the offense itself, and that falls on coaching. Schotty's offense was successful when he was using all the shifting and various formations in his first year. Teams caught onto that and forced him to have to adjust. It hasn't worked consistently since. Whenever I see another team lose a QB and put another one in, they tend to tailor the offense towards the QB's strengths. One of my coworkers is a huge Favre fan and he's constantly telling me the coordinator sucks because he's not calling plays that Favre's been successful with for so many years. At least when other teams hire a rookie head coach, they at least try to give him experienced coordinators, or position coaches. We seem to have none. Both coordinators are fairly new to the positions, and some of the position coaches are newer to coaching as well. There's really no one to contradict Mangini and say, "no, that won't work" because they're so inexperienced that they really don't know if it will work or not.
I never said anything about it being right if people blamed Pennington for last year or the previous 6 years. Its a team game. But sometimes you need to move on. Its just opinion at the end of the day. IMO, he might not have even been the starter this year and IMO little would have changed for him in NY. He needed a change, he needed a well coached team like the Dolphins. If your whole point is that he got an unfair shake here, he did. But I just don't see the point of complaining SO much about something (90% of the board posts probably) that has already happened. I just am of the opinion, you can't just say "Chad is having such a great season in Miami, he would have had the same season here". Some people can say that and thats your opinion, mine is different. We took a shot, it was a risk. We never even got to a conference title game under Chad, he had his chance here (fairly or unfairly). My opinion is little would have changed for him if he was here for yet another year.
Actually, IMO, if Chad had stayed, he would not be having the year he's having in Miami. I firmly believe that their coaches are just using him the way he should have been used here but wasn't. Sparano can bounce ideas off of Parcells for advice. Mangini can bounce them off of...who?
I agree, the playcalling has been crap but so has Favre at points. This coaching staff just doesn't get it. We run when we should pass, we pass when we should run, etc. And I don't think that would have changed if Chad was here for another year. Favre's strengths (I know a lot of people think its the deep but IMO its not anymore). His ability to throw it hard on quick slants, we don't do that enough and when we do Coles drops it or can't handle the pass. Favre uses his TE's a lot. When Keller is being used (i.e. Pats game), its better. This coaching staff doesn't get it and I don't think they would have "got" it if Chad was here for another year.
First of all, maybe he doesn't think so, but Aaron Rodgers was pretty damn good this year, and I doubt he does that without watching Favre for a few years. Second, This Ratliff thing needs to stop. There's no evidence besides a quarter of a preseason game that he's anything but a back-up in this league, and I think everyone who thinks he's the QB of the future is in denial. Meanwhile, I doubt Clemens is the answer...I'm in favor of just starting from scratch from the QB position. There's a lot to be said for putting Clemens out there and either losing enough to pick a good QB in the draft or watching him exceed expectations, but I don't regret the Favre deal, because there was no reason to believe when we made the deal that we wouldn't be in a position to win. If we make the playoffs (which is still possible, let's not forget) I think the trade is a slam dunk. If not, I'll be really disappointed, but more so in the coaching staff and the defense (for their decline as the season wore on) than Favre (although he definitely sucked this month).
Fact the GM, HC and OC didn't believe in Chad after watching him for 3 off seasons. Fact the GM, HC and OC are at best No. 3 in our own division. Fact Pennington had 1.75years of health for the Jets and came up small in every game we were eliminated in which was 3 during his time on the Jets. Fact, the GM, HC and OC didn't believe in Clemens at least this year if they did they wouldn't have had a QB competition to begin with. Fact Favre was the best Veteran QB available who also didn't require a long term commitment. Fact Miami has a much better D than we do, they play in good weather much more than we do and they have a power running game which we don't. Fact the Jets turned a 1 & 15 team around with Neil O'Donnel and he was dumped the following year to upgrade at QB. Fact we beat Miami head to head and Pennington had chances to win that game and threw his last 2 passes into the hands of Jets DB's with the game on the line and time on the clock. One of the passes was dropped and the other was INT. Fact Favre has pretty much sucked down the stretch for us and Pennington has been very solid for Miami down the stretch. Fact neither Favre or Pennington have taken their team to the playoffs or have been elimanted from the playoffs as of today.
When you look at how close the Jets and Miami have been throughout the season, within a game of each other, it's impossible to conclude anything other than we'd be in about the same position with Chad as we are with Favre. Where we dropped the ball, and we all understand how and why it happened, was letting Chad go to Miami. Because it's beyond even arguing that Miami is not a factor in the division without Chad, we certainly wouldn't be playing them for the division this week with them holding the upper hand. To add to that, Favre is retiring and they will still have Chad for as long as they need him.
