To me, all this complaining is kinda weird

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by bleedgreen, Oct 31, 2023.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree that AVT should stay at OG, (be it RG or LG), and your reasoning for doing so. I doubt that Tomlinson is going anywhere until 2025. He has actually been one of our better OL this season, and Becton and he have some chemistry/timing together. Tomlinson's cap hit for next season is $18.88 million. They could cut him and save $8 million on the cap, but would take a $10.74 million dead money cap hit and then they'd have to find another starting OG. With only one safety under contract for next season, not a lot of cap space, the need to add additional players to the OL, and no 2nd round draft pick, I think it would be foolish to let Tomlinson go. As you said, Brown and Turner are probably goners. They may or may not bring Becton back. I think they'll bring McGovern back as the backup C. Regardless, they need to draft another OT with their 1st round pick (come hell or high water) to either replace Becton or Mitchell in 2024 or to groom to take over in 2025. They might get lucky and find a starting-caliber OG with their 3rd round pick or one of their 4th round picks, but that's mighty risky, and after re-signing Huff and Becton, all JD will be able to do in FA is to re-sign some of our cheaper players that he wants to bring back, and maybe a bargain basement depth piece or two. To do anything different the cap would have to go up a lot more than expected.

    IMO we definitely need a better #2 WR than Lazard. Hopefully, Brownlee or Gipson can be that guy, but not if they don't get them more snaps and experience this year, and maybe not even then. They have promise, but were UDFAs for a reason. Morestead and Zuerlein will be FAs. Will they retire? If not, they'll probably come back but both could command a sizable raise.

    As you said, JD has his work cut out for him next offseason.

    I agree that our OL needs to play together during TC and preseason and agree that is part of the reason for the injuries. The problem is that AVT may not be ready to go in TC. Hopefully, he had the same surgeon and surgery that Rodgers used, and will be ready day one of TC.
     
    #41 NCJetsfan, Nov 1, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2023
  2. barfolomew

    barfolomew Well-Known Member

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    I'm just happy to be above .500 for once.
     
  3. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You don't know whether McDonald was the BPA on the Jets' draft board or not, so it's silly to make some pronouncement that could be totally false.

    I disagree that Becton was always a huge question mark. I believed that he would be healthy, that he would win a starting job and play at least at a solid level. He has done that. Thank God we have him. I shudder to think where our OL and team would be without him. He hasn't played as well as I thought or hoped, but hopefully, he will continue to improve and get better vs speed rushers. I agree that it was not good to count on Brown, but Saleh seemed intent on doing just that, and JD works with the CS, not at cross purposes.

    I wasn't in favor of signing Cook either. Some posters here changed my mind slightly before he was signed, but I quickly saw that it was a mistake. I wanted to roll with the RBs we had. IMO Cook was added because Rodgers wanted him. I would be shocked if JD signed him for any other reason.

    I'm no fan of Hackett, but we probably wouldn't have Rodgers without Hackett.

    Regarding AVT, I can understand why JD traded up for him. You may remember that I'm usually vehemently opposed to trading up in the 1st round,and initially questioned or was critical of that move, but JD and the scouts thought AVT could be a perennial Pro Bowl OG. We had Becton at LT, so I think that the Jets thought that they could get a RT more cheaply than using another 1st round pick, and thought it would be better to upgrade the IOL. I can't remember, but think there were some concerns regarding Darrisaw, although I could be mistaken. Still, it's fair to question this move.
     
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  4. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    FYI at the time of that move, we had fant, becton and moses at OT, but only GVR and feeny at OG. darrisaw is an OT, we needed an OG way more. we traded 66 and 86 to move up, 86 was used to draft an OG who is so bad he hasn't played a snap in his career and has been cut 4 times already by 4 different teams. he only lasted 1 season as a backup on the team that drafted him. Even in hindsight, the AVT move was the way to go even though darrisaw did turn out to be a good player
     
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  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, but the bolded statement is just wrong-headed and not your usual caliber of comment. NFL GMs don't draft by consensus. They go by their own evaluation, that of their scouts, and if they work like JD does with his CS by consensus, it's a group decision for that team. They could care less what fans think or what the media thinks about a player. Each GM has his own critieria for BPA like scheme fit, character, athleticism/speed, etc., and whether that or need is more important when one has a critical need at a position. Mac drafted BPA by consensus, and he had the scouts rank all of the players, and then rank players at each position and what round they thought each would go in. That was stupid. He didn't know or seemingly care whether the player was a scheme fit or what his character was like as long as he hadn't assaulted any women. IMO he did that because he couldn't evaluate them himself. So if a player was the consensus (by the media) top player left in the draft, Mac would take him regardless of need. At least JD attempts to balance BPA and need.

    I both agree and disagree with your assertion that BPA is an asinine draft strategy. I think that following any one draft strategy or a set of rules blindly is a recipe for failure. Drafting for need causes GMs to reach badly for players at positions of critical need and overdrafting them. Focusing too much on BPA can cause a situation like with Mac where he kept drafting DTs and ignored OT, WR, RB, etc. I think that each draft is different, and that GMs need to be flexible. They need to think ahead. They need to balance BPA and need.

    If Hackett's good year was with Blake Bortles, then that's pretty darned good. To get that level of QB play from a player who's out of the league a few years after that when many QBs are able to hang on because of the dearth of quality QBs is quite an accomplishment. It does beg the question, however, if he could get him to play at that level one year, why couldn't he get him to do that again? Was it because Bortles was a one-trick pony or Hackett's scheme was predictable, and once other teams caught on how to defend against him?
     
  6. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    We didn’t have Moses at draft time in 2021. He was signed after the draft.

    https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/25/jets-sign-offensive-tackle-morgan-moses-to-one-year-pact/
     
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  7. rscherwin

    rscherwin Well-Known Member

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    I remember you.

    I was a fierce dark sider. Hated Herm. Made sense when he turned the #1 KC offense to the #31 offense in just 2 years.

    I'm now a Zach guy. All sunshine and positive vibes. Must be something in the water in Georgia
     
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  8. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    Kinda ironic coming from someone with a user name REVISion-ist.
     
  9. UK_Chilts

    UK_Chilts Well-Known Member

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    My observation is a general one, perhaps trying to echo @bleedgreen 's earlier points.

    Why be so hardcore about a game of football? How do people on here who are relentlessly negative (and you know who you are) get on with anything else? Does this attitude pervade you in other areas of your existence? Genuinely? Sport, all over the world, irrespective of what it is, is a distraction, surely? A pastime. Something to enjoy when you're not working or focusing on more important things. We all want The Jets to win, of course, on this forum, and will continue to disagree how it should be accomplished. But bloody hell, can we lighten up a bit?
     
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  10. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I’ve never understood why people think that someone saying this player was a bad signing or this player has sucked this year follows them around in their daily life lol.
     
  11. UK_Chilts

    UK_Chilts Well-Known Member

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    Me neither, in fairness, just seems to me that some people get really angry about things, and I don't understand why it has such an impact.
     
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  12. Jets69

    Jets69 Well-Known Member

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    Haha Herm! SunShiner for me was back in the Ken O'Brien days, the problem with the Jets organization is, as it always has been, if it can go wrong, it will, when Parcells came aboard, the sun shined again, briefly, but I was super excited when Chad Pennington, took over, his first starting season, I thought we finally got a QB, comparisons to Montana !

    But my delusional days are far behind me, but being a Jets fan, you have to be delusional.
     
  13. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many Giants fans would trade their entire team for ours led by Zach Wilson and our winning record? Probably somewhere around 110%

    I'm OK with keeping Cook on ice. We all know how it went last year after the Denver game. If Breece Lightening ever goes down again, even for 2 or 3 games, Delvin Cook become our 25 carry RB, and with that much work he could return to form (or so he says), and it'd be a blessing to have him. One never knows...

    I get JoeD drafting WMcD where we did. We are a defense first team, and our most important group may very well be down two players in Lawson and Huff. Top pass rushers are super hard to get, while decent O-Lineman seems to be something Joe seems to come up with. I think he came up with about 25 last season.....fielding a strong Oline is a never-ending challenge, for about 30 of the 32 teams.

    Garrett, Corey, and Lazard would have been a semi-decent 1,2,3. Better than most teams in total. Losing Corey after the draft was pretty hard to take. Plus Mims and Elijah Moore. Forcing Lazard into WR2 was never the plan, but here we are. Rodgers loves Malik, who drew the PI in OT last week. Plus Malik is the guy AR said (in headset during PS) "Throw it to Malik!!!". ZW did, BAM! 50yards. I have some good vibes bringing Malik around more. Where he may fit in I have no clue, but I like what I've seen.

    Losing that huge WOODS dude is a huge hit to the front 4. Notice how Giants ran all over us for 100+ yards with our D knowing it was coming every play. That was a huge loss. Especially after losing Shepard. I guess we'll get to see what Clemens is made of. Losing 3 starters to Achiles is unheard of.

    I get the complaints on Hackett. But keep in mind our whole offense, including the playbook, was for Aaron Rodgers. Hackett had never coached ZW before, so we virtually had to start pre-season all over again in the 1st qtr of our 1st game. LeFlower had 2 years to figure out ZW and just couldn't. Give Hackett a bit mroe time to figure out what plays work, and which plays should NEVER be called.

    We won't have to waste draft capital on a punter or kicker. And that little undrafted kid seems like gem in the return game. Plus it was him providing Breece with a 'convoy' on his long runs, keeping defender from closing in on him (unlike Garrett who was celebrating while a Bills' defender ran past him and tackled Breece from behind!).

    I wonder how much Saleh gets involved with the Offense. Do you think he sits in on the meeting rooms, QB room, WR room, RB/TE room??? Does he go over the game plans with Hackett? How about during the games...do you think Saleh tells Hackett what plays to call in certain situations?
     
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  14. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Good post. Excellent point about Wood. When some posters here or another site where I post and read were saying earlier in the season that they thought Wood was a wasted signing and were glad that he was inactive, I disagreed and said that we needed him. He was our run stuffer. It's a big loss, but it should be an opportunity for the Jets to find out about Clemons at DT. If they don't take that opportunity, then I think they're foolish. Thomas has played pretty well this season, but I think Clemons would add more toughness and strength in the middle and he's better against the run.

    I'm glad that you made the comment about GW celebrating instead of escorting Breece down the field. I saw that and meant to comment upon it at the time it happened, but forgot. Hopefully, he learned his lesson from that. They can celebrate on the sideline or after a player is tackled, not while he's up and still running.
     
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  15. bleedgreen

    bleedgreen Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question regarding saleh and the offense. I guess we have no way of knowing, but I have always wondered that if a defensive guy studies the offense to defend against it, they must have an understanding of how an offense operates against a defence. And of course vica versa. I'm not sure, but logic indicates Saleh should know quite a bit about offenses. Does he use the knowledge in any way? Who knows.
     
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  16. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    Now this is something I don’t really get.

    You’re “a Zach guy”.

    I’m a Jets fan. I support the whole team including the QB, whoever it may be (not that my or anyone on this boards support matters).

    I’ll support whoever the next QB for this team is as well. I won’t pretend they’re good when they’re not, though.

    Zachs a QB who’s shown both progression and regression over the course of this season and I’m not satisfied with that. Nobody should be satisfied with that. I highly doubt he is.

    It’d be one thing if people were complaining about a missed TD opportunity when he had already thrown 2 and the team put the game away early. Unfortunately that’s never what the discussion is about.

    There were also “Darnold fans”. Many from the same group that are Zach fans I think. There were even “Sanchez Fans”. Much like Sanchez, the argument is “he wins games”.

    Sanchez actually played on playoff teams that beat other teams sporting quarterbacking royalty. He had a better cast for sure, but he still had to make the plays he did.

    I was still never a Sanchez fan, just a Jets fan, and he was, at times, able to command the offense like this.
     
  17. Jedi mind tricks

    Jedi mind tricks Well-Known Member

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    What's so bad about our field? I'm not doubting you, obviously it's been a talking point for years now I'm just genuinely curious. Other teams have turf, they replaced the field this season. What is it about this field that is so much worse than all the other turf fields?
     
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  18. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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  19. Centiment

    Centiment Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that I'd forgotten what offense looked like :)
     
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  20. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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    I remember watching that game at the bar..... "WE'RE GOING TO THE FUCKING SUPERBOWL!"

    :)


    :confused:
     
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