Time to end the Jets' Revis addiction!

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by klecko73, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    In every co-dependent relationship, there are alot of people to blame.
    With the Jets and Revis, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Tannenbaum, Ryan and Revis.

    Culprit #1: Mike Tannenbaum - For whatever reason, Tannenbaum believes you can build a defense around an All-World CB. The value of the CB position has increased with offenses becoming more pass heavy but the value of the shutdown CB position has decreased as well. Offenses are so multi-faceted that they can attack the middle of the field with TEs and out of the flats with RBs out of the backfield. Until they create a CB that can cover all three at the same time, a shutdown CB is simply no longer worth what it used to be ten years ago.

    Since the Jets drafted Revis, they have built their entire defense around, especially since the arrival of Rex Ryan in 2009. It worked in 2009 and 2010 and parts of 2011, but the rest of the league has adapted and we are now seeing the results from late 2011 and through 3 games in 2012. The Jets defense are FRAUDS. Bart Scott should shut up because he is only living on reputation since 2010. Tannenbaum is to blame because he has not restocked the team in the middle of the field - at LB and Safety - in the past couple of years. As recently as 2010, no one would put up the rushing numbers against the Jets like they have in the past 3 weeks of this year. The problem here is the talent gap and the inability of the Jets to create enough quality depth.

    Compounding this problem is that the Jets want to be a ground & pound offensive team to compliment what they believe is a shutdown defense. Well this premise works great if you have a shutdown defense but the Jets do not. So now they are faced with having to run a ground & pound offense that does not have the tools to play from behind. This is all on Tannenbaum for overestimating the talent of the team on both sides of the ball. More importantly, as we can see with Keller being out for 2 weeks, Sanchez has zero continuity with offensive playmakers on the edge of the field. The only silver lining to yesterday is that perhaps the light went on with Holmes when he realized he can make big plays when he runs crisp routes. Sanchez misfired a bunch but I will give him a bye on the Cumberland TD and the two INTs. He was under pressure big time and barely got the Cumberland overthrow off and the players ran the wrong route on the INTs. Even I could see that on the TV.

    Sanchez, for all his faults, can win in the NFL and has that uncanny knack for playing like crap for 3 quarters and turning it on at the end of the game. The Jets, like the league, have to recognize and build an offense to his strengths. That means a solid offensive line, a good RB and continuity at the WR position.

    Culprit #2: Rex Ryan - Despite all the bluster and the headlines, I think Rex is finally getting the HC thing. I am basing this on the off-the-field nonsense usually associated with Rex and the media. This year has been an unusually quiet one and I think the real reason is that behind all the false bravado, even Rex knows this is an 8-8 team at best. The problem is that Rex has designed his defense around an all-world CB with no back-up plan for when the guy is out of the game AND no attention to the fact that sometimes your offense actually has to step-up and make plays (as opposed to just not making mistakes).

    Instead of working to diversify the defense, Rex continues to do the same thing over and over. Well guess what? The last 8 games of 2011 and the first 3 games of 2012 tell a pretty interesting tale and that is the NFL has caught up to Rex Ryan and his over reliance on Revis. The defense is what it is, and that is a defense that stands around waiting for Revis to make a play instead of making one on its own. In 2009 and 2010, teams would challenge Revis with a stubborn attempt to get the ball to their #1 WR and drives would often end in a PD or coverage sack. Now offenses don't even bother and just spread the field out attacking the middle. Revis (and Cromartie) are none factors on the edges as teams, to include the Dolphins yesterday, were able to attack the slow and vulnerable LB corps in runs up the middle of the field, passes to the RBs out of the flats or TEs gaining seperation across the middle.

    At first blush, people would think the D-line is the problem but in the 3-4 the pass rush is supposed to come from the LBs. The problem isn't the D-Line, it is the LB corps that plays more like the LB corpse. Scott is finished, Thomas already has been cut and Pace is clearly on his last legs. Harris is a great two-down LB who can play as a blitzer or in rush downs on 3rd down but can't cover out of the backfield. The best thing the Jets could do at this point is to bench Scott, move Harris into Scott's position and slide Pace to fill in for Thomas on the backside - at least Pace still can set the edge if he can't get to the QB. I would start Davis and McIntyre at this point and live with the mistakes. That is all on Rex as the coach and means some sacred cows on the Jets - primarily Scott - will need to shut up and eat pine. However Rex is Bart's chief enabler and now Rex is faced with a decision to do what is best for the team vice what is best for Bart. It should be telling that through 3 games this year, Bart's two biggest impact plays have been on Revis and in the lockerroom.

    On offense, it is time for Rex to take stand once and for all. If people are concerned about Sanchez's completion percentage, it isn't going to get any better with Tebow. The Jets do not have a defense that can stay in the game after 3-4 straight three & outs with Tebow at QB. The wildcat can be an effective change of pace when used in the right situation. However yesterday it probably cost the Jets an early 7 pts when they pulled Sanchez out at 2nd & short and Tebow lost yardage. As for the WRs, it is time the hammer came down. They continue to drop passes and run wrong routes - that isn't on Sanchez and anyone watching the game can easily see when the WRs have screwed up. Sanchez has taken the bullet at the podium but it clearly isn't all on him. The offensive line has actually down a pretty good job in pass protection and Sanchez has been stepping up against the blitz. The poor patterns and drops have just been absolute killers. Finally, it is time for Ryan to pull the plug on the Shonn Greene experiment and start Powell. Powell clearly has a decisive burst out of the backfield is much more effective than Greene running behind the offensive line.

    Culprit #3: Darrelle Revis - Look, I love Revis and think he is a great player. He probably is the most technically proficient CB I have seen play and is great in run support. The problem is that he simply came at the wrong decade for the Jets. As recent as ten years ago, before the widespread use of the spread offense, a shutdown CB would have been golden. A team's passing offense flowed through the #1 WR and taking that WR out could really impact a team's offense through disruption in timing and flow. However, with multiple options in the passing offense, the CB position is simply not as valuable as a DE.

    The problem with Revis is that he is simply holding the Jets hostage. He wants an All-PRO QB salary yet the simple fact is that his position of CB does not have the same impact on the outcome of the game. It would be obscene for the Jets moving forward to allocate $12+ million in salary to a player who may be coming off a knee injury and sugery. What makes this situation even worse is that instead of the knee injury settling the impasse with the Jets it will only make things worse. The Revis camp will be emboldened saying this is justification of why Revis needs his money now. The Jets camp will use it as justification for why he shouldn't be paid that much money. Given the past history of two hold-outs by Revis and the fact that he is Feinsod & Schwartz's primary A-list NFL client, there is no way this ends pretty. In the best of all worlds, the Jets can pay him a reasonable salary with injury protection for Revis while making him a Jet for life. Even if he lost a slight step, he would still be at least a top 5 CB who could then transition to FS with his strong tackling skills in a few years. In the worst case scenario, the Jets have a nasty hold-out into next summer with no end in sight and no way to pay him do to a crappy salary cap situation.

    How does this all end?

    Well my gut tells me that if the Jets miss the playoffs this year, that Tannenbaum is gone and Rex may not be far behind him. I can see the Jets making a run at Bill Polian and/or Bill Cowher. If that happens, the new regime will not have any attachment to a player coming off of an injury and who has a history of holding the team hostage. New management will need to make a decision on Sanchez and even if they do keep him around they will realize that more talent is needed and the salary cap needs cleaning up. Even if Tannenbaum & Rex do survive, I don't see Revis as a Jet in 2013. Of course the injury will result in bringing down his price to a #1 and #3 from a team thinking they are one player away, but that actually is probably a more likely scenario than the Jets getting two #1s that everyone was talking about.

    There is only way the above doesn't play out - and that is if Revis is not out for the year and the Jets go deep in the playoffs with Revis contributing. My gut tells me that isn't going to happen but it wouldn't suprise me if the Jets actually play tough the remainder of the year if Revis goes down. A "Ewing Theory" scenario is not entirely unlikely - as for me the biggest frustration with the Jets since mid 2011 has been the funk of the team sitting around waiting for something to happen instead of making something happen. Perhaps this is just the catalyst to change that mindset!
     
  2. milo

    milo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,951
    Likes Received:
    291
    Must...shield...eyes...from...wall...of...blasphemy...and go repent...

    No seriously I get what you're saying but IF he's out for the season (which is still a pretty big IF) then it puts us in a far better negotiating position than before, where we honestly might have been left with no option but to trade him.

    Whether or not it makes sense from a football standpoint, from a business standpoint I don't see any scenario where Woody just throws overboard the potentially greatest franchise player of all time in the prime of his career.

    I know everyone's looking for the magic formula that gets us a ring, but I'm not sure that would help anyway. Sure you could make an affirmative argument for why it would help, but on the flip side what if we had kept John Abraham? or Jonathan Vilma? We dumped both of those perennial pro-bowlers and it's not like we have any more hardware to show for it.

    This is such a passing league now, which is why Revis has the value he does. Sometimes I feel like if there were stats like a giant sack count to throw around more people would see that. Sure Clay Matthews ends up with a pile of numbers at the end of the year, but in all reality is he worth more than Revis?

    Rex would have to go first before it ever happened, and at that point we're blowing up the whole team anyway, but until then, barring this being a career ending injury, this won't - and shouldn't - happen.
     
  3. jets4lyfah

    jets4lyfah Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,077
    Likes Received:
    0
    i hope we win the superbowl without revis this year. would let the media know who the real best player on this team is
     
  4. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    13,104
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    This thread is a disgrace.

    First of all I am no fan of Tanny's, but it is RYAN who wants to build the D from the back to the front.

    Missing that obvious fact and the fact that the Jet D is much worse without Revis made the whole OP nonsensical.
     
  5. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    Milo - I agree to a certain extent with what you are saying but to me Revis just isn't worth the $$$ or the drama. Abraham needed a change of scenery and that was a win-win for the Jets in that we picked up Mangold. As for Vilma, the guy they should have taken was Wilfork but that is another issue (compounded by the horrible Robertson pick the year before).

    I certainly hope that Revis is not injured badly, but I think in this case the silence from the Jets FO is deafening. The MRI is only a formality to confirm what they already know.
     
  6. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    Ryan designed his defense around Revis upon his arrival in 2009. Revis was drafted by Tannenbaum in 2007. What is Ryan supposed to do, bench Revis? Of course he bears culpability in this as well. And of coure the D is much worse without Revis and I wouldn't claim otherwise.

    But Revis the player and Revis the salary cap hit are two different issues. So you can call this a disgrace but that is because you can't accept the reality that the Jets are a poorly constructed team both on the field and off the field with the salary cap.
     
  7. NYJet87

    NYJet87 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    1
    And who might that be?
     
  8. ShadeTree#55

    ShadeTree#55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    7,552
    Likes Received:
    1
    What the fuck is this? I need a new team.
     
  9. Jetdic

    Jetdic Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    9
    Malone, dude was a beast yesterday.
     
  10. Milliner is your Mommy

    Milliner is your Mommy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    110
    Rex wants to build his defense around his corners. Look at Rob Ryan. His D was shit last year in Dallas because he had garbage corners. Then he went out and traded up in the first to get a legit corner and paid one of the better corners in the league. Without corners the Ryan D doesn't work. If we lose Revis we will end up going out and paying another corner a lot of money. Probably not as much money but you lose a lot of production as well.
     
  11. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    Demarcus Ware and his 103.5 career sacks say hello...
     
  12. RochesterJet

    RochesterJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,888
    Likes Received:
    933
    What dont people get. You build your defense in one of two ways...

    1) Generate pressure with your front 4 and cause the QB to release the ball before he wants

    2) Generate pressure with your back 4 thus generating a pass rush as the QB has nobody open to throw to

    The Jets are #2. Look at all the top teams in the NFL, they usually are option #1

    Giants, Steelers, Boys, Ravens, Eagles (do both), Pack (Both)

    The ability to generate pressue with 4 and drop 7 is ideal. Problem for the Jets is we have sooo much $ invested in option #2 that we have to give up numbers in cobverage to generate a pass rush. Kind of backwards if you ask me
     
  13. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    13,104
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Ware did not prevent the Dallas D from sucking last year. You just don't want to acknowledge the very fair point that Rex's brother pursued better corners this off season.

    In the NFL today you need good corners because the rules favor the passing game.
     
  14. matt robinson 17

    matt robinson 17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    21,158
    Likes Received:
    8,027
    W/o Revis the non exsistent pass rush will be more exposed...
     
  15. NYJETS4life24

    NYJETS4life24 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    202
    Oh yea and who is that? Revis is by far there best player! He is the best non QB player in the NFL
     
  16. Milliner is your Mommy

    Milliner is your Mommy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    110
    Yea he says hello from an awful Defense last year? What does that have to do with anything. He is a great player but he's not exactly the difference between last year and this year. The corners are.
     
  17. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    The OP was excellent.

    I think the injury about does Revis as a Jet. We'll still have him for whatever time he can play this year and next but nobody in their right mind is going to lock Revis up long-term in this situation at the price he will be asking.

    It's an open question whether he will draw the kind of interest on the free market that precludes the Jets from making a reasonable offer that he'll accept once he gets out there and the real price is established.

    I think Rex is probably gone also, although it will take a couple of seasons for that to work out. When Rex was saying that he and Sanchez are a package deal he was looking at reality.

    I don't think Sanchez is going to be able to swim through the muck on the offensive side of the ball at this point. There's not enough talent on that side of the ball and we haven't seen the worst yet in terms of catastrophic downside. That would be if either Mangold, D'Brick or Sanchez got injured.

    So along about the beginning of 2014 I think the Jets are going to be at the what's next at QB and HC place and likely Revis will be gone also at that point.

    I guess there's still a chance that lightning strikes this year and Powell turns into a very good three down back and enough of the WR's work out for the year that Sanchez has some help. I just think the odds on that are low.
     
  18. fozzi58

    fozzi58 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,030
    Likes Received:
    69
    Hydroplate theory is a creationist hypothesis - developed in 1980 by Walter Brown (PhD Mechanical Engineering[1]) - that the antediluvian Earth had huge chambers of water that encircled the planet's mantle. The whole idea falls nicely into the not even wrong category.

    Apparently, before the flood, the Earth's crust floated on the above mentioned chambers (rock floats on water! Perhaps it had lots of pumice in it?). Walls and tendrils connected the mantle and crust, allowing the inner and outer reaches of the planet to rotate on its axis at the same speed.

    But the fantasy does not stop there; according to this "theory" antediluvian Earth had one super-continent—similar in concept to, but not the same as, Pangaea—that covered about 75 percent of the surface. Oceans, if you could call them that, were really giant lakes (like the Sea of Galilee, the Red Sea, etc.). To maintain consistency they are obliged to argue that Earth's mountains rarely reached more than 5000 feet (1524 meters) above what was then sea level and the highest mountain was probably much lower than 9000 feet (2743 meters).


    I just thought I would contribute a nonsensical theory to coincide with the OP.
     
  19. floridajet

    floridajet Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    3
    As most fans that post on message boards. This post signifies that message boards are full of fans on the fringe of insanity.
     
  20. fozzi58

    fozzi58 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,030
    Likes Received:
    69
    I love this. I hear more and more about this from fans and I hope to God this happens. You know why? 13 full years of misery with Polian and Cowher before a Superbowl.

    I have to keep asking this question because no one can provide a straight answer. Why is Cowher so revered? He won a Superbowl in his 14th season as HC of Pitt. What makes you think he will win one with the Jets the year after he takes over? Why wouldn't Rex win one in less than 14 years?

    Why is Bill Polian so revered? Does he have a crystal ball to tell him when the next Peyton Manning is coming? Wasn't the next "Peyton Manning" one of the 1st round drafted QBs over the last 13 years? So far I haven't seen anyone look quite like Manning. Leinhard? Moore? Henne? Newton doesn't look so hot now does he.



    This instant gratification shit really needs to stop with this fanbase. This has been one of the most exciting times to be a Jets fan. The Jets have not been a laughing stock since Parcells brought the team up form the dumps and Ryan is the best coach this team has had in a long time.

    We are bitching about not getting to the SB. 20 years ago we were crying about not being a .500 team. The Jets org has come a long way since the 80's. You youngsters have nothing to complain about.

    I want a SB win before I have lung cancer and die too but Jesus Christ, calm down. I sound like a friggin broken record (you do know what a record is, right?) Let the Jets org stop this coaching carousel and let Ryan bring stability to the position so his philosophies sink in and permeate this org. Everyone is so high on replacing the HC with someone that is supposedly better but no matter whom takes over, they are never given the length of time needed to bring their philosophies.
     

Share This Page