The Official Cutdown Day Thread

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by BroadwayAaron, Aug 29, 2022.

  1. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we have 15 mil dead CAP hit if we waive him after this season in current reality. Because we saved 12 mil for upcoming season and got under the CAP (we were over before). The link reflects current reality, because JD made a restructure already. The 3 mil has now been erased from existence.

    In the alternate reality where we do not restructure Mosley we do not save 12 mil this year (and have to do something else to get under the CAP). This allows to keep only 3 mil of dead CAP instead of 15 next year.

    We moved from 17 and 3 dead CAP over two years (original Mac contract) to 5 and 15 over two years (current JD restructure). CAP hit did not change, just the shift occurred. Makes sense?
     
    #401 Borat, Sep 2, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
  2. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

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    I know that the cap hit doesn’t change, what changes is the dead money. By default when you convert something to a signing bonus you are adding dead money onto every subsequent year. That’s why it’s not always a fool proof plan. We can still cut him next year and save money but before the restructure we would have saved even more money.

    and all of this really doesn’t matter because like I said, I like Mosley and I think he is good for this team both on and off the field. I think he will be next year as well but it would’ve been nice to have the option to clear a boatload of money if we needed to. And also it’s the NFL, you can create money out of thin air whenever you want. You just have to pay for it later

    edit: fast forward to the 2023 part of this article and it’s explained in heavy detail but the bottom line is because of the restructure and the very nature of restructuring, more dead money exists in the final two years now than in the original contract:

    https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/09/02/mosley-restructured-contract/
     
  3. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Mosley had a 17.5 million dollar contract. By pushing the money out he has a 5.6 million cap hit this year. If we cut him next year his dead money and cap hit is 11.844 million. His total cap over 2 years is then 17.5 million which is equal to what his cap would have been this year without pushing it out.

    It is all the same. All it is amortizing the payments to future years and just changing the bookkeeping numbers for this year and next. The final cost over 2 years remains the same at 17.5 million before and after the contract exchange.

    Over time there is no savings or extra cost pushing out money in a contract. All it does is change the numbers for the individual years. What matters is how much money was paid out as long as that does not change there is no change to the cap over time other than individual year changes.


     
    #403 Noam, Sep 2, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
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  4. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    I think perhaps term "dead money" is causing some confusion. Let's assume we will cut Mosely upon conclusion of this year in Feb either way.
    Before restructure, he counts against the cap 17 mil. Also we incurred 3 mil for next year due to some guarantees Mac gave. The point is that CJ will count against the CAP 17 mil this year, and 3 mil next year in this scenario. Because we cut him, next year's 3 mil is called "dead" CAP. 17 mil this year, even though grossly overpaid, is not dead CAP, since he is playing this year. That's all "dead" money is. Counting against CAP while the player is not on roster.

    Now let's consider what happens now after restructure. Same scenario, we waive him in Feb. Because we shifted the money, this year he counts 5 mil. (For simplicity I am ignoring decimals). Next year he will count 15 mil. These 15 mil will be called "dead", because we cut him and he won't play next year. However, understand that we saved 12 mil this year. Whether you call it dead or not is irrelevant. We shifted the CAP hit from 17 and 3 to 5 and 15. Further, if we cut him in June instead of Feb. We can can further shift the CAP to be 5 in 2023 and 10 in 2024. We can all restructure him again to further shift the money if we still want him.

    So, whether it is dead or not, we are shifting CAP hit around. You can call it whatever you want, the point is that shift, and now we have 10 mil this year to improve roster from being 2 mil over the CAP. If for example we cannot use this, I suspect JD may do something like restructure someone to pay him more this year and less next year to reduce CAP next year to account for CJ's shift. It's just CAP gymnastics, don't let the term "dead money" make it sound like JD completely lost it by taking on it. I am hoping though that there is a move made at some point to get another good player, like we did with LDT last year.
     
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  5. Burnz

    Burnz Well-Known Member

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    Who are we targeting
     
  6. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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  7. TheJetLife

    TheJetLife Well-Known Member

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    Have been a bit out of the loop this offseason/preseason for the first time in many years.

    Just wondering if anybody has any insight on if Blake Martinez, who was recently cut by the Giants, would potentially be a fit on this team, If so, then for who's roster spot?
     
  8. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

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    I understand all of this. It’s what restructuring is. It’s been this way for years now. We aren’t adding money, we aren’t taking away money. But the way it hits our cap changes. We aren’t paying him any more money, but if we cut him after this year he will count more against our cap in 2023 than he would have before the restructure. That’s what restructuring is, you’re restructuring how a player is paid and how it affects your cap savings. It’s quite literally impossible to turn something into a signing bonus and NOT increase dead money down the road. It happens in every single restructure by default. That’s why it’s frowned upon by some.

    This one isn’t egregious so I don’t think anyone can really bitch about it but I don’t think there was a huge need to restructure CJ and increase his dead money charge if we cut him (which we have to). For example… ditch Mike White and Ashtyn Davis in favor of Streveler and Parks, the better players, and all of a sudden you have another $4 mil to play with.
     
  9. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    We don't have to cut him next year. It all depends how he plays this season. Say he plays well and JD thinks he is worth 4 mil. He could then offer CJ 4 mil next year. If CJ agrees, then his CAP hit next year would be 8 mil, not 21, while getting paid 4 mil of actual money for the 2023 season. Suppose at that point after 2023 season CJ is done. Then JD will waive him in June 2024, prior to 2024 season but waiting until June to do so, taking a dead CAP hit of 4 mil in 2024 and 6 mil in 2025. The point is, this is not a bad deal what JD just did and there are ways around spreading the CAP hit in smaller chunks down the road. Looks like we both agree this CAP reshuffle is not egregious, so we can leave it at that.

    The big question here is why push so much down the road? Like you said, something could have been done to just get under the cap by small margin, not by 10 mil. That would push only 2-3 mil down the road instead of 12. 10 mil allows a lot of flexibility. If it is not used and we just be 10 mil under the CAP this year, while pushing extra CAP next season, I would agree it would be completely moronic move. JD has something in mind here. Looking at the roster, Safety is weak and Tackle is very thin. We cannot really answer if this was a good move or not until we see what other moves JD makes to use the 10 mil CAP room he created. This could happen any time before the season, or even during the season after JD sees a few games to assess where weaknesses really are.
     
    #409 Borat, Sep 3, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
  10. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    IF JD does not use the 10 million he will just roll it over into next years cap and it's a wash.
     
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  11. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    So we can acquire a player if required during the season for injury ie an OL
     
  12. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, it’s not complicated
    It’s not that complicated, I’ll let this guy explain it
    See, it’s not that complicated
    Huh? that’s not how that works… why did you have to make things complicated?
     
  13. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    That's one complicated post you just made!
     
  14. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Normally yes, but now that he is doing CAP gymnastics, not exactly. He now shifted the CAP to future years. We are going to take on that (dead) CAP regardless. If he does not use what he saved this year it would be totally moronic. For example, say Mosley sucks this year, and JD parts ways and we don't use 10 mil CAP we saved this year. We still have dead CAP of 15 mil for 2023 (which can be split roughly 5 mil in 2023 and 10 in 2024 if we waive him post June 2023). The fact that we didn't use 10 mil in CAP we generated doesn't help get dead CAP off. That would be absolutely moronic, because we could have just kept Mosley's current contract, maybe pushed only 2 mil somewhere else to get under the CAP, we would only have 5 mil dead CAP next year, instead of 15.

    The only reason to do this gymnastics is because you need the CAP room this year. When it is all said and done Jets will be at or near the CAP limit this year. Otherwise it is a colossal mistake to do this restructure take on future dead CAP and not gain a benefit at present. Since JD is not a complete imbecile, I expect something to happen to bolster the roster.
     
  15. bleedgreen

    bleedgreen Well-Known Member

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    Not quite sure what kind of big expenditure might happen this year. I don't think the Jets feel the need to make a big splash, where would such a player fit in? Plus they do have the practice squad. Personally, I think this a "prepare for the worst, or just in case" kind of deal. Allows for something this year, but if that something doesn't happen the money rolls over. Who knows anything about next year! They will face it when it comes. Always good to have money in the bank.
     
  16. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure how much money JD needs for practice squad, how much we really needed to get under the CAP factoring that in. Meaning how much real CAP is available. It could be an insurance too, but it's pretty expensive insurance. I just don't think JD would roll over 10 extra mil into future years if he didn't think something will need to be accomplished this year with the money saved by pushing the can down the road. It's like taking on future debt to rent a nice apartment this year, but never actually using that apartment. Could be an insurance if something happens to current apartment, but it feels like an overkill. I think there will be some moves down the road where we are going to use up the CAP.

    They don't have to be big moves, but perhaps a couple of guys with 3-4 mil CAP hits for 2022. Possibly they can come when we need to put someone on IR, which is something that as much as we don't want most likely will happen.
     
    #416 Borat, Sep 3, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
  17. bleedgreen

    bleedgreen Well-Known Member

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    i didn't mean they need money for practice squad. sorry for that impression. I meant they have replacement players already on the team on practice squad. Not that any of them are top quality they are not. But they can be used for short term purposes. Again, unless its to replace someone out for a long while, what kinds of players do they need to bring in? opening day is a week away. They took no one from the waiver wire. Why do people think they are go after any players at this late date?
     
  18. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Tell us you don’t understand how the salary cap works, without saying “I don’t understand how it works)
     
  19. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Actually IMO is the right move, with zero if any downside since the total impact value of the dead money is fixed and the variable is timing.
    1) You need sufficient cap every year to at least bring in top reinforcement in case of a serious injury in a critical position. Ten mil cushion is not unreasonable, and you don’tdo that in desperation and in a rush when something happens. We are on a win now mode and JD knows it. He ain’t writing this season off. He wants ammunition now. If you don’t need it the subject is mute and rolls to 2023
    2) You push it to the right because the cap increases every year giving you more options
    3) While the total $ value does not change the actual true worth $ for dollar is alway les for future dollars than current dollars.
    4) Depending how CJ performs the actual salary as you pointed out is subject to renegotiation.
    5) Timing was bad for us.Cutting White was a non starter for the near term with Wilson injured. No way they would role with Steve that early if Flacco gets hurt. As for Davis, well we beat that one to death.
    6) I suspect there is something in the works we don’t know about that might necesítate the cap soon
    JD know exactly how to navigate the cap and when to defer or not defer. That to me is a non issue, as he needs to fix the problem starting this year or he might not see 2024
     
    #419 LAJet, Sep 3, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
  20. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Still very complicated.
     
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