The defense

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Jojo, Dec 29, 2021.

  1. barfolomew

    barfolomew Well-Known Member

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    The only edge rusher worth getting is a top notch one. If you go middle of the road at that position all you get is roadkill. That said i want our first pick to be oline unless there is some sort of warren sapp available.
     
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  2. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    we need better LBers that has been a big theme this year, but also more help at edge would be huge for us and safety. in our scheme safeties are supposed to come up and fill gaps are are LBers and often our Lbers and/or safeties fuck it up.

    rankins has been solid. he's a rushing down DT. not great on the run but gets pressure. he's supposed to be a 3rd down specialist for us with Q and foley the starters. foley is great stuffing the run not a good rusher as you'd expect from a DT. he's a low budget snacks. but a good one. shepard can go, I don't really care if he does or doesn't. he's solid depth as a 4th DT but replaceable. Q and foley though are a good starting pair and rankins is cheap at under 6 mil as a specialists/depth guy. i mean rnakins does have 4 sacks and is slightly above average in pressure rate. not sure what else you want from a situational backup. as far as DE goes we have JRM and carl lawson will be back. shaq lawson will be gone he was a 1 year rental due to injuries. we also have huff and blair and should draft an edge high. marshall is a DT so i'm fine with him replacing shepard. that makes the d-line look like this

    DE Carl Lawson, JFM, Rookie Edge, Huff, Blair
    DT Q, Foley, Rankins, Marshall.

    maybe we have room for 1 more player on the d-line depends on how we build the roster. we'll probably be light on Lbers again with only 5 being carried. sherwood, mosley, and quincy are roster locks so maybe a rookie and one of our young guys from last draft
     
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  3. WhiteShoeWillis

    WhiteShoeWillis Well-Known Member

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    I thought this was a really good breakdown of the wide 9 and it's strengths/weaknesses. A stud strong side LB is necessary.



    Here are the Cliff’s Notes:



    STRENGTHS

    1. Rushing the quarterback. The Wide 9 makes a speed rusher even more dangerous, because he lines up outside the tight end. The offensive tackle has to kick slide quickly and cover lots of ground just to get his hands on the Wide 9 defensive end (think Dee Ford). By forcing the offensive tackle to move so far, the Wide 9 creates space inside for the 3-technique defensive tackle (think DeForest Buckner) to rush one-on-one against a guard. The 49ers have struggled to create one-on-one matchups for Buckner the past three seasons.

    2. Defending finesse runs outside the tackles. It’s extremely difficult to run outside outside zone or jet sweeps against the Wide 9, because the defensive end is not attached to the tight end. If the defensive end fires straight upfield after the snap, he’s on the tight end’s outside shoulder already, forcing the outside-zone run to break inside the tight end. The Wide 9 sets the edge. He is the D-gap defender (the gap farthest from the center). Last season, the 49ers’ strong-side defensive end was head up on the tight end, meaning he was the C-gap defender. This alignment allowed the strong-side linebacker to defend the D-Gap and be a smaller player, because he had to chase down people near the sideline rather than fill gaps between the tackles.

    3. Playing Cover 2 and 2-man. The three linebackers are bunched together between the tackles. They’re all in perfect position to play their zones in Cover 2.



    WEAKNESSES

    1. Playing Cover 3. The curl/flat defenders (strong safety and strong-side linebacker) are farther away from their landmarks pre-snap in a Wide 9 alignment compared to the traditional Seattle defense. The strong-side linebacker is in the box, so he has an extra few yards to run to get to the flat. And the strong safety is 10-12 yards off the line of scrimmage, so he has a mile and a half to run to get to the flat. This means teams will attack the 49ers’ defense in the flats next season. In practice, the 49ers have been dropping the strong safety into the hook zone over the middle and sending both outside linebackers to the flats.

    2. Defending runs between the tackles. It’s tough for offenses to break the outside contain of a Wide 9 defense, so they must attack where the softness of the defense is, and that’s inside. By spreading out the defensive linemen, the defense has created cavities offenses will try to expose by making their run game more direct. The 49ers’ small linebackers better wear big-boy pads next season, because offenses will be running between the tackles. They’ll run inside zone plays, and pin-and-pull concepts such as G-Leads, Whams, Traps and Power plays. The strong-side linebacker (Dre Greenlaw?) has to be a stud, because he’s playing the C-gap between the tackle and tight end. Offenses can block the Sam linebacker with a tight end, block down on the 3-technique with the offensive tackle and pull the play-side guard to kick out the Wide 9 DE. That’s a G-Lead. The Wide 9 alignment makes it easier for offenses to isolate the 3-technique (Buckner) in the run game, and exposes him to situations where he’ll have to play the down block from the offensive tackle more often.

    3. Defending play action. The Sam linebacker must explode downhill toward the line of scrimmage whenever he sees run action coming toward the C-gap, so he’s easily fooled by play action. He will bite every time a quarterback fakes a hand off. Last season, the 49ers’ Sam linebacker and strong safety both lined up outside the tackles, so they didn’t have to overreact to run actions, and they both had clear views of the run fake, because they were outside the tackles and didn’t have to peer through bodies to find the football.

    Do you like the Wide 9 alignment? Do you think it will improve the 49ers defense? Or should the 49ers have stuck with what they used the past two seasons? Why or why not?

    https://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/the-strengths-and-weaknesses-of-the-the-wide-9/
     
  4. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Good article on the scheme but I think Jets fans need to get this “strength is in the front four because that’s how Saleh’s defenses work” thing out of their head. Every team in the league dreams of having a defensive front like the 49ers did in 2019. Or a defense that can lean on it’s front four like they could because it just makes everything easy when you can generate heavy pressure on even just 3rd & 3 to 3rd & 6.

    They infused a generational edge rushing talent onto a roster that has four other first round picks along the defensive line when you include Dee Ford. They also had Richard Sherman just outside his prime and the beginning of a budding superstar in Fred Warner.

    The defense was loaded and the team needs to add an edge rusher and some sort of above average run stopper either at defensive tackle or linebacker along with realistically two new safeties.
     
  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Elite Edge + Pretty good Safety.
     
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  6. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    That ship sailed Sunday
     
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  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! Really good explanation of the Wide 9 scheme. I don't understand why the Jets adopted this with the personnel they have. They don't have any LB that could be considered a "thumper", and their best LB weighs all of 225 pounds. It's no wonder they're getting gouged by the run.

    Saleh has to come up with another scheme until he gets the players that better fit a Wide 9.
     
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  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily.
     
  9. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Either 2 teams need to pass on a top EDGE (doubtful)
    Or
    Texans beat SF or TENN AND Lions beat GB AND Seattle for us to get to #2…. I don’t see it happening.

    If you’re suggesting there are more than 2 Elite EDGE rushers in the class, I don’t see the Polish kid having a better shot at being elite than any of the other top choices. Bonitito could be had in the 2nd.
     
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  10. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    He’s Greek dude.
     
  11. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Tomato/tomato
     
  12. WhiteShoeWillis

    WhiteShoeWillis Well-Known Member

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    I'd bet dollars to donuts at least one QB makes his way into the top 5 by draft day.
     
  13. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    First, it depends on how many teams want a QB badly. Second, there may be more than 2 Edge prospects that could be elite. I haven't spent any time looking at this class yet, but every year there are studs at all positions that "come out of nowhere". If Douglas does his homework hopefully he can find that elite Edge we're seeking.

    I could be completely wrong, but I really don't think any Safety is worth taking over an elite Edge, a stud OL or WR or TE, let alone at #4. HOw big of an impact has Jamal Adams made after being hailed as a "generational" Safety and maybe the best player in that draft by some? I'll be shocked if Douglas takes a Safety at #4.
     
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  14. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    I’ll take that bet. How many donuts am I putting up to your dollars?
     
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  15. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    There are about 10 prospects who could be ELITE with the probability curve dipping after the 1st 2…. Is the 3rd guy that much better of a prospect than the 7th? My opinion is no
     
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  16. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I think Pickett is sitting out the bowl game because he’s gotten strong feedback that he has the potential to be a relatively high pick. I’m not sure if he and Corral go in the top five, but it’s not crazy to think it happens. Especially if the Texans miss out on the top two edge players or the WFT/Broncos/Saints don’t want to continue to play veteran roulette OR the new Giants regime wants a fresh start from Daniel Jones.
     
  17. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Texans can win one more and we end up with #3. If someone up top falls in love with Evan Neal, who knows - maybe we can trade up to get to #2 or they can even take Evan straight up with #2. All I know is I am rooting for Texans from here on out, and then let's see what happens. Hutch is probably out of the question, but we might still get a shot at Keyvon, you never know.
     
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  18. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    If Trevor wasn’t such a pussy, and Detroit beats Seattle next week, we’d be looking at #1 and #5…. You dream about what could be and I’ll dream about what could have been. Lol
     
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  19. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, what could have been! Though I think Echols stops him from going into the end zone even if he did man up. Mosely also touched that ball, even though he did not pick it, and that prevented a sure TD as well. We were close to that #2 pick. :) You never know though what the future holds, I still think we will end up with a great player with our pick.
     
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  20. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Adams is rough comp because he's essentially an undersized OLB in playstyle. He's bad in coverage and has terrible ball skills but is great at blitzing, so he spends most of his time in the box. Hamilton is the polar opposite. He's very good in coverage with good ball skills and primarily patrols the middle of the field. He intercepts a lot of balls as well.

    If Hamilton played like Adams I'd be very opposed to taking him but he's about as different as it gets in terms of playstyle.
     

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