The defense

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Jojo, Dec 29, 2021.

  1. Jojo

    Jojo Active Member

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    So here's my issue. This defense, is based on the front 4 making most of if not all the impact. From the play we had this year, our front 4 must really suck. This means we will need MORE DL ...
    I think it bad coaching but...
    Ahmad Gardner, would be a better prospect, if the front 4 was stable. The kinda player that could get lots of int. with his style of play, though his play is risky.
    So aside from needing CB, S, LB...
    is everyone happy with this front 4 going into next year?
    What players should we target then to fix it?
    Just asking...
     
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  2. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    Hard to see how anyone could be happy with our DL…we get little pressure and we can’t stop the run

    We need a true pass rusher in the worst way…why this team has ignored the position since we foolishly traded away John Abraham is beyond me.

    So to me, Edge is the top priority on D. I would NOT count on Lawson at all. He may come back, but I seriously doubt he’ll be as explosive, at least in the first year back, but maybe never. Plus, he was injury prone before that anyway. I would treat him as a nice bonus if he comes back, but I would draft as if he’s not coming back. I like JFM but he is not a top pass rusher and doesn’t change games. So to me, we need a pass rusher as the highest priority on D.

    I like Q as a very good DT, but he has also shown that without help, he’s not a game changing player. I like the combo of him and Rankins if we can get some outside edge players

    I think we need LB help next, though safety follows closely behind that. We need guys who can cover at LB and can fill holes in the run game. We have probably the worst LB Corp in the league, and it needs to be addressed.

    finally, we need two safeties…Davis is not a good starting quality S. We have a bunch of decent backup types but we need two guys here if Maye doesn’t come back.

    I do think we could use another CB too, but I think the other needs are higher…Hall shows promise and while we need a corner opposite him, the kids we’ve played have struggles some but not as bad as the other positions
     
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  3. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    A game changing edge rusher is the top priority. Can Karlaftis be that player? Who knows.
     
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  4. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    yup we need an edge rusher for sure. and lawson back. that would give us rookie, lawson, JFM, huff, maybe blair or a 2nd rookie. at DT we'd have Q, rankins, foley, shepard. should be ok. on pass rush downs it would liklely be JFM inside with Q, and lawson and rookie on the outside
     
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  5. WhiteShoeWillis

    WhiteShoeWillis Well-Known Member

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    You have to stop the run first. I know we need that big time edge rusher for the d to work too, but you have to stop the run. If you can't do that your defense will always be in bad situations and always suck.

    I don't really understand this scheme but it seems like the d-line takes huge splits a lot of the time and that we're really relying on the LBrs for that duty more than a traditional 4 man front. I'd be looking to really beef up the LB corps with big time run stoppers this offseason.
     
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  6. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Honestly still blows my mind how we perpetually have 0 pass rush despite spending 6 first or second round picks on DL over the last 10 years.

    I think it's time for a change in course. I would've supported drafting Hutch/Thib had we secured a top 2 pick but naturally we botched that as well.

    Let's try to improve our secondary since a pass rush feels like a lost cause. I think Hamilton should be the pick and we pray that Lawson comes back and plays decently next year. A ball hawk safety like Hamilton should do us a lot of good. He's a turnover machine and we've lacked game-changing turnover ability on defense just as long as we've lacked a pass rush.
     
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  7. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    I do not know much about Hamilton to agree or disagree on that but counting on a speed edge rusher to come back to form after an Achilles is a big risk. I am all for a cover and tackling safety.

    I hate the wide 9 scheme and to me opens up running lanes. Until the Jets have the personnel to run it, it should be abandoned.
     
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  8. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm not very confident in Lawson returning to form either. I just think we're better off taking the best safety prospect in years than reaching for the 3rd best edge rusher in this draft.
     
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  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I disagree that even a great Safety is better than a really good Edge rusher. Until the Jets get that massive, years long hole filled, their defense will struggle.

    And I think our pass rush has struggled because Saleh and Co adopted a scheme that we didn't have the personnel for, even before the injuries. While I'm still a big supporter of Saleh, he needs to show he's capable of adapting his preferred scheme to the actual players he has.
     
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  10. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The front four has been bad as has every position group outside of the corners miraculously.

    But we have so much money tied up into Rankins and Carl Lawson on top of the decision to make with Quinnen Williams that you can’t really pour more free agent money into it. We can draft an edge or players to supplement it but I don’t think big money in free agency to the position group is in the cards given the deficiencies everywhere else.

    We’re in a bit of the same position at linebacker since we have to pay fucking Mosley.
     
  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    I think we have better personnel for a 4-3 than for a 3-4. Our DL is stronger than our LB group imo. I think the defense would look quite a bit different with a healthy Lawson.

    There is some precedent for forgoing flashy edge rushers in favor of an elite secondary. The Patriots come to mind. Analytics also say that coverage players are generally a bit more important for wins and losses than pass rushers. They accomplish similar things (making it hard to pass effectively).
     
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  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the 4-3 vs. the 3-4, and have said it for years. But we don't need to be playing like the Jets have.

    And think back a few years ago when we had an elite secondary with Revis and Cromartie, but no real pass rush. I'm not saying you don't need a strong secondary, but in my book it's more important to have a great pass rush - that makes an average secondary above average. With today's rules and how they're enforced, there is no such thing any more of a "shut down" CB or Safety, especially if there is no real pass rush. You can have the greatest secondary in the NFL, but if the QB has time to look he's going to complete passes.
     
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  13. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    This is why I think Saleh needs to think about adjusting his scheme.
     
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  14. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    have to agree on the last paragraph. U R absolutely correct, the personnel do not fit the scheme, yet this CS stubbornly sticks to it like it is as good as the 85 bears D or even our own D under Rex's1st couple of years. Unfortunately, we have another year in the books, and it looks like these last two games will be ugle... Todd is going to dial it upon poor Zack and then da Bills... LOL.
     
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  15. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    There’s no adjusting the scheme with a slew of bad linebackers, on top of having an entire staff that has never coached that scheme. The only player who fits a scheme change would be Mosley. A 3-4 hurts Quinnen Williams while it’s unknown how Lawson, Rankins and JFM fit in it.

    It’s not really a scheme issue, it’s a issue with handing out bad contracts to underperforming players.
     
    #15 Jonathan_Vilma, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
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  16. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with the last sentence, I also think Saleh has to look at coming up with a different way to play the players he has. I'm not a coach and IDK what that different approach should be, but I do believe there has to be a better one. Sticking with this "wide 9" scheme clearly doesn't work.

    EDIT: And I mean he needs to make this adjustment more for next season than now. I understand that he can't do much at this point based on the current roster.
     
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  17. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    at this point 3-4/4-3 doens't really mater. most teams run 3WR a majority. so far in the NFL 3WR is used on 60% of snaps so the "base defense" for most teams is nickel. it's why LBers aren't as important as you only have 2 of them on the field most of the time. usually the mike and will. the sam has been replaced by the nickel corner.
     
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  18. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    This is a deep Edge class.
    Would you rather get:
    Elite S + Pretty good edge
    Or
    Very good Edge + Pretty good S

    Elite edge is ideal but I have no more faith in the polish kid than I do the other Michigan edge or the kid from S Carolina etc.
     
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  19. WhiteShoeWillis

    WhiteShoeWillis Well-Known Member

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    How does that fit into this scheme we're running though? The d-line is lining up creating huge natural gaps making the job of the opposing o-line pretty easy. Someone has to fill them to stop the run and this year it seems like the answer is usually no one.
     
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  20. IDFjet

    IDFjet Well-Known Member

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    Not sure where your love for Rankins, Foley and Shepard come from. I'm not seeing any of them making the 2022 squad--why should they?

    According to OTC, Rankins is due 750K next year with a cap savings of 5.5 million if cut and he's not signed in 2023--so I expect he's gone.

    Foley's gonna get someone to overpay via FA and Shepard doesn't do much imo. Shaq Lawson is obviously gone lest a 9.9 million hit in 2022.

    This leaves us a core of Carl Lawson, Q, and JFM--with Huff and Jonathan Marshall signed. We need these guys to stay healthy in 2022. I think a high pick and a FA or two fill out the DL roster.
     
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