The D... Crazy numbers...

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by burf, Oct 24, 2022.

  1. burf

    burf Well-Known Member

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    While so many are fretting the O, & the Breece' injury (including me)... these numbers are a helpful antiseptic...
     
  2. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    I recall after four games there was an X factor article that showed the Jets were at the top of the league in 3rd down pressure and in length of 3rd downs but were at the bottom of the league on 3rd down conversions. The article speculated that it was a small sample size and the Jets were extraordinarily unlucky. I posted that article here and the usual suspects questioned the stats and said they were BS and one person even said they were not the kind of stats he liked so he would not take them seriously. Well it appears that X Factor was right the Jets defense was playing really well the first 4 games but was extraordinarily unlucky. Also, when QBs play really well, get rid of the ball quickly, execute perfectly no defense will stop them. We had a lot of that the first few weeks especially with Joe Burrow. Over time with larger sample sizes these things do even out. That being said I will say that the Jet defense has not played the best offenses. They are a good defense and much improved but maybe not the best defense in the league. But certainly much better than they appeared the 1st 3 games.
     
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  3. JetFanInPA

    JetFanInPA Well-Known Member

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    This is a really good defense. And there's reason to think it should continue to be very good. I'm shocked they've been so good against the run especially. Who thought they'd turn that around. I was very high on DJ Reed and thought Sauce would be good, but not Pro Bowl-level. Even the safeties seem to be settling in. I don't see any glaring weaknesses anymore. I think it's going to be about consistency and staying healthy.

    Literally was probably the worst unit in the NFL last year, and now they're in the upper echelon. That's just incredible. It's great work by JD and the coaching staff to this point. Really shows how big of a deal the lack of talent was last year
     
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  4. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the bold. Connor Hughes repeated all off-season that the Jets coaches believed last year the Jet DL and LB play was good against the run the problem was the secondary. That the jets had to play 2 high secondary to compensate for coverage issues allowing teams to gash them on the run. That and our safeties and CBs gave up an extraordinary amount of big run plays last year with missed tackles. To fix that they brought in Reed and Whitehead really good tacklers and with Sauce and Reed on the outside it allows Whitehead to play in the box a lot more. We heard Hughes repeat this all off-season and I and many others thought we needed a big run stuffing DT to replace Fatukasi. I guess we didn't. Keep in mind the one game we played against the Phins where they ran well we played a very light defense to contain Hill and Waddle.

    It is amazing how much having Reed and Sauce has completely improved our run defense. I have to give the coaches and our FO credit here. This board was completely wrong and the FO and CS knew what they were doing. Nice to have a competent FO and CS. The future may actually be bright after all. Even for Jets fans.
     
    #4 Noam, Oct 24, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2022
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  5. burf

    burf Well-Known Member

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    Well, as an aforementioned Jets fan, I agree on 2 of 3 aspects of the game. The 3rd, ummm... how MLF deals with the loss of Breece, will go a long way in changing/solidifying people's opinions of him.
     
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  6. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Most everyone was completely wrong regarding Ulbrich. What makes anyone think they're right about MLF? Without game tape and detailed in depth analysis of it - which only the Jets CS has available - how can anyone know for sure what the problems have been? I sure don't.
     
  7. Jeff M

    Jeff M Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......................I think we will have to start winning games by a score of 0 to minus 3 with our O so decimated. Can our D get that done ?????
     
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  8. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    The positive is our depth is so much better this year. Even with the injuries this year our offense is better at almost every position than last year. Consider last year Davis,MC and Moore were out most of the year, no Tes, Becton gone, GVR at guard, Fant playing banged uo the past 5 or so games and the same for McGovern who ended up missing a game or two.
     
  9. burf

    burf Well-Known Member

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    Briefly, since this is a thread about the D... people have opinions based on what they see. And people watch games differently... some may follow the ball, some may watch plays develop, some may watch certain players, etc. Me, I see patterns. Aside from a few gadget plays/game, the patterns I see are troublesome... & that's taking into account OL issues, & a raw, young QB. We're all right some times, & wrong some times... that's why I said how MLF responds to the injury(s), will be a good measure of how he's viewed.
     
  10. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Of course, everyone sees things differently, but none of us have the benefit of the info and data and first hand knowledge of what's happening like the CS. And I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, but people say things with such certainty: "MLF needs to do this." "MLF needs to do that". "Ulbrich sucks and needs to be fired". I think the results so far are arguing against anyone knowing better than the CS. As I said, I sure don't. I would trust the advice/analysis of a proven analyst like Kurt Warner, but I don't think he's posting here.
     
  11. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    That's why I think it's entirely possible that MLF is responsible for Zach's struggles. He looked really good last year once he went to the booth, but with Mims having problems with him this year, now Moore, and Zach struggling when he played so well at the end of last season and vs the Titans earlier in the season, I can't help but think there's a problem with MLF.
     
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  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Well you've made it clear that you think MLF is the problem. Maybe he is. But without the benefit of the film, data, and firsthand observations that the CS has I don't see how we can say for certain. You know I'm one of the biggest Zach supporters here, and would love to push back on all this negative doubting by putting it on MLF, but I can't. And I'm NOT saying that LaFleur doesn't own some blame, I just don't know how much.

    I DO think Zach could really use a good QB coach to help him iron out his shortcomings because whoever the QBC is now doesn't seem to be clicking with him.

    On balance though, I think the ZW Haters are being way too harsh and seeing only what they want to see and not what's really there. Zach has improved significantly from last season, especially from the beginning of last season, and has racked up a 4-0 record since he returned against top defenses in places where the Jets have traditionally lost. I get that people want to see more, but they're going to have to be satisfied with "just winning" for now.
     
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  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong, but until evidence points elsewhere I believe with every fiber of my being that MLF and Saleh are the problem. His present QB Coach is Rob Calabrese and he was a rookie position coach last year. He is not what Zach needs. That surely isn't helping him, but again, if they took the reins off of Zach and let him play more aggressively, I don't think we'd see all the inaccurate throws. Sure there might be an interception or two, maybe a loss or two, but he would be developing more naturally and in a way that it won't affect his confidence. I truly believe they are ruining him.
     
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  14. burf

    burf Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot to be said about allowing a QB to mature naturally, allowing him to be himself, & learn from his mistakes. I kinda understand what the CS is doing, but at the same time, by 'shielding' him the way they are, he's not gaining experience in areas he needs to improve. In another thread, a video analysis of Zach before the draft, was posted. He was making the same mistakes against the Broncs, he made in college. So, I guess the question might be: Do the Jets want a complete above-average NFL QB, that can carry them when need be, or just a game-manager, as he's presently being groomed to be? That he's playing in his head, scared & seemingly lacking confidence, so worried about the incoming D pressure, so afraid of making mistakes... that's why I question how he's being handled. That doesn't change the fact that I want him to succeed, as I do the CS.
    It just seems there's so much talent on this O being wasted, rather than used to its fullest.
     
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  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But what I think Saleh and MLF are doing is trying to make Zach a more complete QB, one who can play comfortably in the pocket, and can also make off schedule plays. Unfortunately, in order to remake someone there's often a period of going backwards before leaping forward. This was the thing that should've been done for Sam and wasn't, and he was allowed to just keep doing what he always did, and hence there was no growth, and eventually he did regress but not by plan but because the league caught up with him.

    Of course I could be wrong, and you could be right. I hope not, not because I hate being wrong or don't want you to be right, but because if you are right we've got a much bigger problem than Zach struggling after 17 games.
     
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  16. JETFUEL1580

    JETFUEL1580 Well-Known Member

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    Boy that is a beautiful thing to look at
     
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  17. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Zach hasn’t done everything we’ve asked him to do but he’s done everything we’ve needed him to do.

    Next week should be fun, BB is going to turn up the heat on ZW.
     
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  18. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

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    Imagine when they stop calling third down penalties against us on every series.
     
  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Zach is not a pocket passer. That is not his game. They are trying to force him to be something he is not. I read earlier that Zach has ADHD, which will add to his issues with pressure in the pocket and trying to adapt. Rather than trying to force him to be something he's not, they need to build the offense around his rolling out and throwing the ball. Zach might learn to become a pocket passer, but if he loses confidence or loses the confidence of MLF and Saleh, what good is it? The media and many Jets fans are already questioning and piling on Zach. IMO we're going to wind up losing Moore, Mims and Zach because of MLF's rigidity. MLF has never developed a QB in his life. The very LAST thing he should be attempting to do is to make a pocket passer out of Zach. If they're going to try that, then they need an experienced QB Coach and an experienced OC who knows how to do that and to call plays that Zach can execute while he is learning.

    They have no business trying to remake him. Zach is good at what he does and can be very successful at what he does just like Lamar Jackson has been in Baltimore. The difference is that they have wise, experienced coaches in Baltimore and we have incompetent novices screwing with Zach here. They've been lucky to win so far even with Zach not playing well, but that will end soon, probably this week. Jets fans and media are already turning against Zach, and wanting another QB drafted during the upcoming offseason. Even if Zach isn't ruined, he isn't going to want to stay here with the fanbase booing him and the prick NY media trashing him in print.

    I'd rather be wrong as well, but don't believe I am. The more I see and read about this, the more I see previous arrogant Jets coaches trying to shove square pegs into round holes rather than adapting their schemes to the talents of their players. MLF claimed he was going to do that when hired, and he's done anything but that. I want MLF called into Woody's office with JD there and told in no uncertain terms to stop that BS right now, and re-design the offense to take advantage of what Zach does well. They didn't draft him because he was a pocket passer. They drafted him because of his arm talent, his ability to extend plays and create, his understanding of the position, his work ethic, his high football IQ, and his character. Why should they want to make him a pocket passer? They've said they don't want to take away his ability to extend plays and create. Can the fools not see what their having him be a pocket passer is doing to him? He's having to think too much, his fundamentals are going to crap, and if he hasn't started losing confidence already, he soon will be.
     
  20. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    If you can't throw the ball from the pocket in this league you might as well take up another profession.
     

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