The Bengals kept Marvin Lewis on as head coach through thick and thin and changed the pieces in the front office instead to get over the top. That's how they built the culture they have today, with one guy the players really had to answer too. It was painful but it worked and along the way the talent caught up with the culture and they became a good team after sucking for a decade before that. The Browns should keep Pettine and let him become the culture. They should find better answers in the talent evaluation and acquisition positions. Otherwise they're back on the same treadmill they've been on since they rejoined as an expansion team.
It's not a question of real or not. They went from doormat of the NFL to 10-11 wins every year over the course of a decade and the way they did that was by giving one guy the power to shape the culture. The guy was out of the Ravens organization and he shaped the Bengals culture to be a lot like the Ravens. Eventually the talent caught up and the Bengals are a much better team and organization now than they would have been if they knee-jerk fired the failing coach after 2 years or 4. Pettine is also out of the Ravens organization via the Jets and he knows what kind of culture he wants but the talent hasn't caught up and the organization has been very squirrelly behind him. (Texts from the GM to the sidelines on strategy last year in violation of NFL rules as an example.) The Browns should upgrade the organization and leave the coach in place for at least another couple of years before making a change. That's their path to rational competition. Otherwise they have a bunch of guys on the field and nobody to set the culture.
how many changes has pettine made at the qb position this season that weren't forced by injury? is he creating chaos?
I disagree big time. Pettine's gotta go. That organization has serious issues. Nobody is on the same page and Pettine is part of that problem. At the very least they NEED to fire his DC, Jim O'Neil. But O' Neil is Pettine's butt buddy from a long time, I doubt Pettine'll accept the mandate to fire him and Pettine will be out the door just for that. That defense in Cleveland could/should be good, its not a personnel issue its a coaching issue. I could go on and on but there are huge schematic flaws on that defense, guys playing the wrong position etc. There is no reason with the talent they have on that defense they should be this awful. (Buster Skrine for example- we bring him here to play the slot/nickel corner with the occasional blitz, which the guy was born to play. In Cleveland, Pettine & O'Neil had him outside matching up with receivers twice his size, they never blitzed him and they wondered why he struggled) Pettine coached teams have always been awful against the run, no matter the personnel. Early in his Jets tenure, Rex had a firmer hold on the defense... around about 2011, Pettine took over more of the defense scheming/play calling (per Collision Low Crossers).. since that time a Pettine led defense has been: 13th (NYJ 2011), 26th (NYJ 2012), 28th (BUF 2013), 32nd (CLE 2014) and 31st (CLE 2015)... different teams/situations/personnel, it doesn't matter, the guy has issues stopping the run. You gotta blame him. Lastly, Pettine is clueless with QBs. I wouldn't trust the future of my organization in a league designed for QBs to a guy who can't manage or develop or even facilitate players at the position. I'd move on. Pettine is better designed for the college game anyway. He has the personality for it and that's where he should be coaching. He can discipline college kids for drinking off the field not grown men.
Sounds like the Jets should have kept Rex until they could find the right GM. I'm all for not being too-trigger happy on axing your coach, but sometimes your coach is Joe Walton.
They can keep the same coach as long as they want, they're not going anywhere till they get a QB. Marvin Lewis would have eventually been canned if Carson Palmer didn't get there.
The Bengals weren't successful after Palmer's knee injury. It took until Dalton came to town for them to turn the corner. They were in fact 46-50 in Palmer's starts for them. The franchise stuck with Lewis through thick and thin because they liked the culture he was instilling in the team. That's the difference between Lewis and Rex. The culture here was bad.
Every time I start rooting for the Bengals I have to remind myself that they have a defensive back (Vontaze Burfict) that tries to break ankles of opponents while they are on the ground and that the Marvin Lewis coached team has been 1 and done in the Wildcard game 6 times. Sometimes a team needs a new coach to get them over the hump - like Gruden taking over for Dungy in Tampa Bay.
Marvin Lewis ain't the guy in Cinci. Odd you mention Gruden because I was just thinking he would be the perfect guy to get them over the hump. They or they can try to lure Cowher back in. Marvin Lewis is this generations Schottenheimer.
I agree with the sentiments of staying with a coach and eating the bad seasons to get to the good ones to keep continuity in the franchise. I just don't see it with Pettine. His clock management and in game decisions are questionable at best. I think this thread would make more sense for a Jim Caldwell in Detroit, Jay Gruden in Washington, maybe a couple of other guys.
I disagree. What's he supposed to do when the QBs are sucking and not producing wins? Just keeps sticking with them and hoping they'll play better? The situation is even harder when you have a drunk douchebag like Manziel, who while he has the best talent and gives them the best chance to win, doesn't respect himself, the team or the game, and keeps screwing up. He had to discipline Manziel to try to get his attention and possibly save the kid's career, if not life.
You have a point, but after Schottenheimer resigned, didn't they go down the tubes rather than make it over the hump? Yes, the object or goal is to not just make it into the playoffs, but the SB, but one has to make it into the playoffs first. Schottenheimer was a very good, if not great coach during the season. I don't know what happened in the playoffs...if the pressure got to him and he choked, or if he didn't have the talent or what, but during the regular season, his teams were always one of the best. I just looked it up. His KC teams had the following records: 1989 8-7-1 1990 11-5 1991 10-6 1992 10-6 1993 11-5 1994 9-7 1995 13-3 1996 9-7 1997 13-3 1998 7-9 He had a .634 winning percentage with the Chiefs (101-58-1). I would have loved for him to have been the HC of the Jets during that time. He won 3 division titles, had 7 playoff appearances and made one trip to the AFC Championship game in 1993, where he lost to the Jim Kelly/Thurman Thomas led Buffalo Bills. There was no shame losing to that Bills team. Most teams did. Buffalo was 12-4 that year, and that was their fourth straight trip to the SB. After Schottenheimer resigned, their records were: 1999 9-7 2000 7-9 2001 6-10 2002 8-8 2003 13-3 Dick Vermeil won COY It sounds like to me that KC had some talent issues.
Since when does anyone emulate the Bengals...the last time the Bengals were in the playoffs Dalton was falling all over himself and an embarrassment. Marvin Lewis is a shit coach and so is Pettine. I have been hearing the Bengals have finally figured it out for 10 years now. If the goal is not to be a complete embarrassment then yeah emulate the Bengals. If the goal is to actually win something no one is emulating them. Stability only works if you hire the right people...not Mike frickin Pettine.
It's difficult to ascertain anything about the Browns due to the fact that their drafting has been abysmal for many years now. I've got some sympathy with Pettine but I'm unsure if he's doing his best with what tools he has available. Manziel is definitely a tool.
