Sick of not having a Pass Rush

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by PennyandtheJets, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    Title says it all. I am a big believer in Joe D's philosophy of the trenches being the foundation to a winning team.

    Our pass rush has been consistently bad ever since we traded away "The Predator" back in 2006 and I think it is time for the Jets to get highly aggressive in overloading the defensive line with talented pass rushers. Free Agency has some decent short terms answers and the draft always has some studs and gems.

    Who do you like in free agency to help boon the pass rush? I personally am dreaming of Kayvon Thibodeaux falling to us at 4. (Don't be a Debbie Downer!)

    What say you?

     
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  2. WoodyHarrelson

    WoodyHarrelson Well-Known Member

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    Wether it’s Thibedoux or Karalafits or Ojabonin round 1. Or, Jermaine Johnson etc in round 2. We need a WSDE.
     
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  3. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    Kayvon is an absolute stud. His bend and speed is elite. Thing is I think we would need to move up for him. I doubt we do that… Karlaftis will be a discussion at 4 and definitely a possibility at 10 but I doubt he makes it till 10.

    We should be getting Lawson back so I don’t think we go the free agent route unless it’s a 1 year wonder deal for a vet for depth.

    In an ideal world we trade back with a team like Denver from 4 to 9 and pick Karlaftis or Garrett Wilson or Stingley back to back.
     
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  4. WoodyHarrelson

    WoodyHarrelson Well-Known Member

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    We can’t go another year without a pass rush. JFM is an undersized DT imo. Lawson is hurt.


    DE historically always get hurt and need to rotate. We need to either reach for Karalfits or get comfortable with some of the other DE in the draft. We should assume Hutch and Thib don’t make it to us.
     
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  5. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    I also really like Cameron Thomas from San Diego State. He is a hidden gem in this class. May end up getting taken in late round 1 or early round 2 if he has a great pre-draft process.
     
  6. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I haven't watched video of Thomas yet, but have looked at a lot of Karlaftis, as much as there is on Enagbare, what there is on Arnold Ebikitie, and some on Thibodeaux. It doesn't look promising.

    A lot of posters really like Karlaftis, but I don't see it. I'm no expert, and he has size and speed, but I see little that gives me any hope that he would be the answer. He takes a LOT of plays off, and jogs around, doesn't hustle. Much of his production is when he was unblocked.

    Enabare is fast, but looks VERY raw.

    Ebikitie is fast and looks promising, there just isn't enough video on him yet to come to any kind of rational conclusion.

    Right now it looks like Thibodeaux or forget about any Edge we draft in this draft making much of an impact in 2022. I understand why some want to trade up for him, but imo we cannot afford that. I'll look forward to watching video of Thomas.

    Posters who saw a lot of Enagbare's or Ebikitie's games sound off. What do you like/dislike about them?
     
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  7. Lon Chaney

    Lon Chaney Well-Known Member

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    Maybe there is another terrible Florida Gator we can draft in the 3rd round?
     
  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    IMO there is in Jermaine Johnson. He looks to be primarily a run stopper to me. I don't see a 1st round Edge there at all like some people do. That said, I know you were being facetious.
     
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  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I haven't watched any tape so I can't comment on who they should target, but I agree that they absolutely need to get that stud Edge they've been missing for almost two decades. Easier said than done of course. That said, if you don't try you don't get, and I fault the Jets for not trying for whatever reason to fill this position. Douglas has to solve this problem this year, no excuses. Second only to Wilson failing (and I don't think he will), the failure to get a legitimate pass rusher might well doom Douglas's career as Jets GM.

    Now maybe he can put together an elite pass rush by committee, but that relies on a lot of individual pieces coming together. If one or more fails - gets hurt, has a down year - then that pass rush becomes mediocre and will put JD in jeopardy.
     
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  10. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Pass protection has evolved significantly over the past two decades.

    More teams are going with a spread on passing downs and relying on the QB to get the ball out quickly. More teams are using mobile QB's and expecting them to get outside the tackles and make the pocket less necessary. More teams are using jet sweeps to punish the opponent for not setting the edge properly as their edges move into the backfield.

    This is an evolution over the best pass protection schemes of the 90's and early 00's. Those schemes featured a fullback taking on the edge as he penetrated or a TE engaging on the edge and then releasing into the flats or across the middle. Some schemes relied on the screen pass as the punisher. Some schemes used dual-TE's with the TE on the rush side staying in to help out the tackle or pick up a blitzing DB off the edge. The Jets often relied on the FB as a multi-purpose part in the pass protection scheme with Richie Anderson handling an assignment at the snap and then becoming an outlet afterwards.

    In 2021 an offense is much more likely to spread the field out and rely on the QB to make the right call as opposed to having multiple layers of protection for the QB in the backfield. The FB is basically a non-entity for most offensive schemes, being effectively replaced by a 3rd WR.

    Given all of this the value of the traditional edge is less unless they are great. Most teams rely on the overall scheme to generate their pressure and are constantly facing tough decisions in terms of dedicated pass rushers vs pass defenders. The issue is further complicated by the fact that modern offenses tend to pass more often and without regard to down and distance. A modern offense is more likely to pass on 2nd and 10 and on 3rd and 2. The old wisdom that running the ball on 2nd and 3rd and long because it creates fewer unpredictable results has also been tossed by the road side. Again, modern NFL offenses are relying more often on the QB to do the right thing with the ball and prevent breakthrough plays like sacks and interceptions.

    What I'm trying to say is that what the Jets really want to do during this build is to create an effective pass rush. They need to be careful not to reach for an Edge unless they are sure that he is going to create that pass rush for them. Just because Aaron Donald and the Watts are great at putting pressure on the QB does not mean that getting an Edge is going to do the same for the Jets.

    I'm all for taking one of the top 2 Edges if they drop to the #4. I'm definitely against reaching for an Edge on either that pick or the #10. Build a good scheme and you will get sacks and pressures.
     
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  11. joelip

    joelip Well-Known Member

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    I haven't watched a lot of tape on any of the rushers. But, based on what I've watched, it seems to me that Ojabo and Ebikite are the most athletic of the second-tier edge players. Both display extraordinary speed and bend. It's no accident that both were extremely productive with sacks and TFL's last year.

    Unfortunately, they're both undersized and not very good against the run. Still, if JFM and Lawson are going to be our starting DE's, I don't see why we can't draft one of these explosive rushers in the second round and put him in on passing downs as a designated pass rusher, with JFM moving inside. This is all assuming that neither Hutchinson nor Thibodeaux fall to us at 4.
     
  12. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, Colorado, but one simply cannot make a blanket statement like "Douglas has to solve this problem this year, no excuses." I'm sorry, but that's a load of crap. He can't manufacture pass rushers that aren't there. We can't afford to trade up for Hutchinson or Thibodeaux, and they aren't even all that great as prospects. There are no great Edges availble in FA, either. If Thibodeaux falls to us at #4, JD passes on him to take an OL or other position, and Thibodeaux goes on to be a great Edge rusher, then yes, JD would deserve to get plenty of abuse for that. But when the team can't afford to trade up, and there simply aren't any truly great Edge prospects in FA or the draft this year, it's totally irrational and unreasonable (plus lacking in reality) to proclaim that he has to do it this year, no excuses.

    I'm certain that JD knows better than any of us how much the Jets need a great Edge, and I'm equally certain that he wants one. I doubt that any of us want to win any more than JD does. After all, that's his livelihood, and he wants to not only keep his job, but succeed and be known as a great GM. He wants to win multiple SBs, when many posters here are willing to just settle for being mediocre and backing into the playoffs.

    Would you want him to trade a slew of draft picks to get Hutchinson who only really had one great year in college? After all, he only had 4.5 sacks in his career at Michigan prior to this past season. What if it was just a fluke/flash in the pan? Thibodeaux has never had double-digit sacks in a season, but at least he has 19 over the past 3 seasons (his college career). The reality is that there might not be an Edge this year that will solve that problem. We can only hope that if there is/are that he will fall to us and we will take him.

    I'm no expert, but I've watched a lot of film of Karlaftis, what there is of Enagbare, Ebikitie, and Jermaine Johnson. So far, Ebikitie looks like the best of that group. Enagbare has some promise, but looks very raw to me. I wouldn't draft either Karlaftis or Johnson unless one of them fell to the 3rd round. Whereas the Edge position is extremely important so that would elevate their status, I'm not reaching for an Edge out of need and pass up on a superior prospect at another position. That, imo, is truly a fireable offense. I haven't watched any film yet on Cameron Thomas, Myjai Sanders, Travon Walker and Sam Williams. I have some hopes there. I saw Walker play in the National Championship game, but based on that game and what I've read about him, he seems to be more of a run stopper at present than a real pass rush threat. I also saw Sam Williams play in a game. The announcers were hyping him, and he had pretty strong game if I recall. Our CS will be working with Sanders and Ebikitie, so JD and our CS will get a great idea of what kind of prospect those two are.

    I know that you believe in JD. Don't allow your frustrations with the past to punish JD. I think you'll regret it if you do.
     
    #12 NCJetsfan, Jan 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
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  13. joelip

    joelip Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Ebiketie looks the most promising of the second tier, and he likely can be had early in the second round. Ojabo, maybe the most athletic pass rusher in the draft, may require using our #10 pick, which is high for designated pass rusher.
     
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  14. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    That's doable! Do we know anyone who can photoshop a gas mask on him????

    All jokes aside, the NFL Passing Game has evolved to counter a 'highly aggressive' pass rush with screens and 'tom brady' quick throws. Although just a slightly better pass rush and we beat the Bucs a few weeks ago so there's that. Almost like a stout rush comes in handy at the end of games if the other team is in throw-it mode. Or on 3rd and long, which means a good run D on 1st and 2nd downs is important just to get to where a good rush comes into play. Lots of ways to skin a cat, but ya, a great pass rush would be a lot more fun to watch than Brady going 80 yards in 40 seconds. I'm glad Saleh and JD seem to be on the same page.
     
  15. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Side note on our pass rush.
    We act like we haven't had a good pass rush in so long but in 2015 we had 39 sacks, which was like 4th in the league. Its just that Wilkerson became a case, Richardson became a merc, and Williams got fat. This has become our recent fate when drafting D-line. Richardson and Williams are still out there having good years for other teams.
     
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  16. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    If one the top 2 edges is there you take him and don't look back. I'm not certain they will be though so how do you solve the problem if he isn't. Not by reaching for lesser talent at 4 for sure. At 10 someone like Karlaftis might come into play, but let's assume they aren't there either. Perhaps the solution is two players: a bigger space eater to shore up the center against the run on 1st and 2nd and then a developmental edge pick in rounds 2/3 who can be let loose on 3rd down and just be part of the rotation otherwise. Assuming Lawson comes back this would perhaps achieve the desired effect without one of the name edges reaching our picks.
     
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  17. Quinnenthebeast

    Quinnenthebeast Well-Known Member

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    I find it hard to believe that there isn’t at the very least a developmental pass rusher that can be had in this draft that wouldn’t be a massive reach. I’m still learning more about this class but it does seem like we’re in no mans land after the top 2 go. I have a bit of reservations of taking Karlaftis or Ojabo at 4 because you should be picking absolute stud at that spot in the draft. To me the tackles like Neal, Okwonu, or Cross are more likely to be slam dunk picks on the OL there.

    I think the most likely scenario is that we grab a older vet for a 1 year deal in the free agency who can be our day 1 starter and we look to bringing in a rookie who can grow into the role.
     
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  18. Lon Chaney

    Lon Chaney Well-Known Member

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    Your point is valid about 2015 but now Richardson is the very definition of a JAG and Williams had one good year which he parlayed into a stupid contract.
     
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  19. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    The larger point is we cant seem to keep good DL past their rookie deals. However, IMO we wasted Willaims by playing him inside too much. Then we misvalued him and the Giants stole him for cheap. Moving him back to his natural position made him an impact player again. We mismanaged Williams.
     
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  20. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    I keep getting a feeling we'll get one of the top two pass rushers in the draft.
    Jags: Neal
    Lions: Hutchinson
    Texans: Hamilton
    Jets: Kayvon, come on down
     

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