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Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Thewatchfuleye, Feb 9, 2016.
In your case, the quotation marks are very appropriate.
Geno is geno, he has not played well since his Junior year in college,yet you are willing to give the team back to him. This is probably the last year before a major rebuild Mangold,Revis,Harris,Mo,Forte,Decker,Marshall,Clady are all superstars,in the later parts of their careers but still playing at a very high level (Mo in all likelyhood just later part of Jets career) I am mad at Mac for not having for having a simple 12 million for a QB. Most teams in the league pay more so a smart GM should have planned on that. We are a team that could make some noise this year,especially with Brady out 4 games yet we are the only team in the league that can not find a way to pay below market value for a qb that his teammates respect and had a pretty good year. Pennington also had limitations but he also lead us to some pretty good years
2013 - Who the hell did he have to throw to? Jeremy Kerley was our #1 receiver. That should tell you everything you need to know about why his stats were shit. No NFL QB could have had a successful season with that (Kerley, Nelson, Gates, Winslow Jr. - Jesus that's awful).
2014 - TD:INT improved, completion percentage improved, all while still having a weak WR corps. We had Decker, but he was injured just about every game and he's not a #1. After him, it was Kerley, Harvin (LOL), Salas, Amaro (rookie), and Cumberland (meh). Still nothing to really work with, but clearly having Decker around helped.
2015 - Looked good in TC until he got popped in the mouth. Learned a lot clearly last year. Came off the bench with no practice with the 1's, no chemistry really with Marshall or Decker (both of whom were hurting all game from injuries). Despite that, threw 27/42 (64.3%), 265 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT. That's improvement right there in a situation he wasn't set up for. Defense played like ass that game. Marshall had nagging injuries that game. Ivory was a no show on the ground forcing us to pass constantly. Coaching was a God damned joke and cost us the game. The fact he did so well in that game despite the shitstorm around him is a surprise in itself.
So yes, based on his progression over the last couple years, it'd be worth handing him the reigns over someone who wants to be overpaid to do a mediocre job himself.
LOL....Can't wait for Geno to start so Jets fans like yourself are in that awkward position of what to root for
But of course you already know what's going to happen so you don't even have to be in that position....yeah we know Geno will go 3-13 with 7 Tds and 38 picks and 25 fumbles
Sanchez got Tannenbaum fired and Smith got Idzik and Ryan fired. Does anybody really thing this regime is going to give it back to Smith now? Everybody else will have to be dead first.
Lets look at the Raiders game a little more (have gamepass so can ensure my comments are accurate) - going in Fitz had struggled (11 TDs Vs 7 Ints) Mangold was out with a neck injury and Wesley Johnson had to start, Ivory had a hamstring. Devin Smith injured and out and Owusu had been put on IR due to his latest concussion. Marshall as pointed out was also struggling, as was Decker who had an knee issue while over on D Pryor was also out. Raiders had been hot the previous week Vs Chargers getting confidence. Jets D played REALLY poorly that game - multiple slips both in tackling, penalties, mental errors and were out fought in the trenches for a lot of it - Apologies for the almost play by play breakdown but for many it may set the stage as game recollection fades
On the opening drive Fitz runs for a first but fails to protect himself and hurts his hand as Woodson went for the strip. Geno came in and after 2 ineffective runs Geno hit Kerley for 23 on a really good pass. Two positive runs but the Raiders (3rd ranked run D at the time) stuffed Jeys on 3rd and short, result = FG - not too shabby with minimal prep.
Raiders scored a TD on their opening drive - gave up penalties, had missed tackles and mental erros in conceding the TD - before Geno led second drive - poor throws as timing with WRs was off and a punt required after minimal gain - Raiders drove and a TD. 14-3 Raiders - hard to blame the QB here especially when the TD was a result of poor coverage and LOTS of missed tackles - anyone recall Crabtree's TD Davis/Cro & Williams all failed to get him down.
Jets again tried to run twice and on a 3rd and 3 Geno fails to find a receiver - Raiders converted on a 3rd and 2 from midfield - 21-3. Carr was on fire that half. At this point any QB not named Manning, Rodgers or Brady is really under pressure
Geno threw his pick on a deep out on the next drive by failing to hold the safety long enough but Marshal had the CB beat - Woodson was single high reading coverage. On the the next drive Jets blitz disrupted the throw and Raiders missed a FG - Geno at this point is 3/6 37 yards and an int.
Geno hit Marshall with a bullet on the next drive, then Thompkins and others. Third down Geno threw it up and Marshall unable to bring it down being pressurised - 21 -6 @ halftime
Raiders took the opening drive of the second half and drove for a 4th TD - 28-6 -unable to run the ball as part of game plan at this time but at this time where is Powell a better back for this type of game where passes out of the backfield would help rather than Ivory
Geno did better second half with 2 TDs but game was lost by this time. In the end with 6 minutes to go and the Jets had all 3 timeouts & driving Marshall got hurt and score @ 34-20 and left the field and did not return reducing options for the QB.
My view - Geno played well and it even started a mini controversy in the immediate aftermath with people wondering who the QB would be going forward as pundits at the time felt Geno had done enough to open the position up to competition and lack of clarity about Fitz's injury - Bowles squashed this knowing that it would sink the season as he jumped form QB A to QB B - look at how it affected the Texans and any other team that flip flops mid season
Big negative - CS / FO still do not fully believe in Geno but equally still look at Fitz as a bridge, decent but not the future and not willing to be extorted to pay €12m and be at this impasse again next year if the other QBs don't mature and show significant progress - as LAJet noted they probably, almost definetely want 2 on the roster with game experience
And on top of this.. the 0-lines those years were TERRIBLE... i mean Geno was getting absolutely BLASTED by the play.. no raw inexperienced QB should even be playing let alone dealing with the beating he was taking.. literally had 1.5 seconds to get the ball to Kerley David Nelson and Greg Salas... lol that's a joke.
PLUS those two seasons were the 2 worst defensive seasons i've seen from this team in the last decade. So Geno literally got NO help.. i'm VERY interested in seeing what he can do for this team this season! DON'T SIGN FITZ! I'm off that..Geno can be much better. I don't see this team making the playoffs regardless so why jump to pay Fitz extra dough to get the same results?
I don't think improved WRs will help Geno much, because I don't think Geno's problem is with passing. To my eye, he has much better ball control, placement, and velocity than Sanchez ever did. Geno's problems are, in my opinion, the dumb things he does with the ball when it is still in his hands. Things like 37-step drops, and behind the back ball exchanges, and running out of bounds 13 yards behind the LOS instead of throwing it away, not securing the ball when he's being sacked, etc.
I guess what I'm saying is, while Geno does make some poor decisions sometimes, I can live with those. What I can't live with is the way he seems to make any slightly negative play exponentially worse all by himself.
Maybe having better receivers means he'll have an open receiver sooner and will have less opportunity to get in those situations. I think learning to throw the ball away, learning to step up in the pocket, and learning to properly take a sack would make him a better QB than giving him three 24-year-old Jerry Rice clones would.
Very nice post. Can you comment on Geno's "slow release", & how well the OL held up in general and with Mangiold out? Thanks.
This is true in some respects, however the talent around both QB's was really iffy when the situations went south. Tanny and Idzik got themselves fired with sketchy decisions compounded by bad injury luck.
It was a shame in both cases because they were both better than that.
Jacksonville is one of the emerging teams at this point, just like TB and Seattle were. Idzik is probably going to be in the background at another Super Bowl winner in a few seasons.
Tanny just can't break the gambler's instinct to go all-in with his superstars. Just like in Hold 'em that's going to break you fairly often.
OL that game struggled to open running lanes - Colon was not 100% and on a 4th and 3 their DL blew past giving Geno no chance to set up and review options leading to a poor pass, not to mention scheme was poor. Colon pulled the DL to the ground so that even if Geno completed the pass they were getting backed up further. Once they went up the Raiders DL pinned back their ears and the DL rushed the passer while the rest dropped off in cover determined not to give up the long ball - Geno's release seemed ok and he was only sacked one time. Game was difficult for any QB once the other team go up 28-6 as the Raiders did.
For what is s worth the pocket collapsed on Fitz just before he slipped out took off and got hurt. Many of the rushes in the first half were blown up in the back field especially sweeps.
Opening drive near mid field Ivory tries on second down to bounce one outside with multiple Raiders breaking through the middle but lacks the speed and is downed for a 4 yard loss. Next play Geno on 3rd down hits Kerley in stride with a well thrown ball allowing him make 15+ yards after the catch for a 1st. Line held the pocket well here with a 5 on 5 and Geno connected. On third and inches later on Raiders blew into the backfield and tackled Ivory for a loss ending the drive.
Neither Tanny nor Idzik are "better than that." That's one of the dumbest, most inaccurate things I've ever seen posted on any Jets fan site. I thought that YOU were "better than that," but I guess not. You just lost a TON of credibility with that post.
Idzik has nothing to do with what's going on in Jacksonville. Tanny has no idea what he's doing. He's a freaking bean counter for Pete's sake. I swear, some of the absolutely stupid shit that gets posted on this board.
Both of them had issues with a scouting department in place that they couldn't remove. Think about it.
You try to do that job without picking the guys who are evaluating talent for you.
And you probably need to take your meds this morning. You go off like that too often and it's gotten predictable. With Stokes it's just his personality, he's an asshole with a chip on his shoulder. You aren't like that most of the time.
Great stuff. Thanks for the effort.
Many pundits have two main knocks on Geno. 1. His slow release dooms him as a starter. 2. He's not good in the red zone. So, it seems, even with a patchwork OL of Colon and Johnson, the 1st might be overstated.
You read a lot of your own output, huh?
Fitz will sign by TC and this will all be a distant memory.
Someone did a thorough breakdown of Geno's Raiders game performance. They break down the good and the bad from him on that day. Overall well done.
This seems to be the crux of what is happening here - no one claims Geno was the answer and we all know there is Good Geno/Bad Geno but the one time we saw him in 2015 he looked OK - hard to just come in cold and the CS were trying to run a lot - possibly as they knew that the timing would be off a bit. Both Geno's TDs in the game Vs Raiders came in the red zone. The D gave up TDs on 4/5 of the Raiders opening drives. We will never know if he progressed over the 2014 season - seemed to improve down the straight of that one from recollection - ratings were 87/88/83 and 158 over the last 4 games - 71/109 for 1,000 yards 6 TDs (admittedly 3 in final) and 2 Ints. Also ran 18 times for 76 yards and nearly pipped the Pats - led 10-7 at the half on a 20 yard pass to Cumby and on the int he was hit in the backfield - poor decision as Collins had Amaro covered but Jets gave the Pats all they could handle that day. All we are saying is if Fitz over plays his hand is it really a major loss - and before I get told Geno is X, y and z and as a result unable to lead those rooting for Fitz must admit that for any knocks on Geno just as importantly there is a Good Fitz/Bad Fitz too.
The overall production during Fitz's career is far from what we saw last year - in 2011/2012 in Buffalo he had 47 turnovers, in - compare this to Geno's first two seasons when he had 41. If you look at Fitz's numbers in 2013/2014 he had 23 turnovers in 21 games as a starter - Geno's 41 came in 29 - again not overly dissimilar. A lot of Fitz's production in Buffalo came in garbage time when teams played soft - not sure here see the highlights of the opener between the Jets and Bills in 2012 - ignore the Tebow remarks but pay attention to the pick 6 Cro makes
Also Fitz's final game with 3 ints in the 4th Qtr do nothing to give me confidence in him as anything more than a bridge and I have not seen the ability to take the next step
This discussion is over two QBs both who have a lot to prove irrespective of what we think here - neither is guaranteed to start even if both go to camp irrespective of what Bowles as said to date. FO knows this and it is why they are offering high end back up / lowest level starter money to Fitz.