Report: "Zach Wilson was fundamentally falling apart"

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by ouchy, Nov 22, 2021.

  1. King Koopa

    King Koopa Well-Known Member

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    Its possible he’ll be able to run this offense eventually, but in the meantime it would really benefit the Jets and Wilson to put his strengths to good use.

    Those plays he made against the Titans downfield are something you can’t really teach and only a handful of QBs in the league can physically make.

    I just don’t understand why we aren’t letting Zach just rip it a minimum 5 times a game, and overall just getting him on the move much more.

    The offense and plays called yesterday would be perfect for like Chad Pennington…I don’t get it
     
  2. Pepsiguy5

    Pepsiguy5 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah after reading a bunch of your guys thoughts I think this basically boils down to if you want to see the glass half full or half empty. And right this second for me its very hard to convince myself its half full.

    Just a point of reminder, the gritty TD run is brought up as a thing to be positive about. Lets not forget the only reason he got a chance to do that was a bolt of blue lightning field goal leverage penalty that got him the 1st down. The "real" chance there he completely and utterly blew when he threw a terrible pass into the dirt to a wide WIDE open Griffin in the back of the end zone. So taken in totality I have a very hard time making that whole sequence into a positive review of Zach Wilson.

    Also as others have touched on this has to be reviewed against the backdrop of the fact they were playing the Texans. In other words, it basically does not ever get any "easier" for an NFL QB than yesterday for Zach. And if you stripped away a somewhat lucky 40-50 yarder by Berrios on a short poor throw Zach would have barely accounted for 100 yards passing.

    I do agree though on the interception. It was ugly but that doesn't bother me personally at all as far as Zach's development or whatever. Thats almost a who cares thing. If he did it every week I guess we'd have to revisit but that one I think we can just throw out as far as being worried about.

    All in all I hope he looks a lot better against Philly next week. Because frankly the Jets are effed in the A if this kid doesn't pan out into at least a solid NFL starter.
     
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  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Actually I think it was smart for LaFleur to dial it back for him. His tendency to look for HRs - like he was able to do consistently in college - got him into trouble his first 5 games. He definitely needs to become comfortable playing "small ball" before they open it up too much. That said, they probably can loosen the reins a bit more than they did yesterday as he gets more comfortable. But yesterday was the right approach for him at this point IMO.
     
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  4. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    We called a Mike White style game but it was too much for Zach.
     
  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Agree that it wasn't a great pass as far as accuracy and timing, but it was still catchable - Griffin got both hands on it and just didn't hold onto it. Zack should've made the throw sooner - as soon as Griffing made his cut, but maybe he couldn't see a lane to get it to him. Still, it wasn't an easy pass to make, running to his left and getting zip on the ball.

    I'll say this: it was the kind of ball/play that great QBs make and he didn't make it, so at this point he's not great, but that doesn't mean he can't get there.
     
  6. King Koopa

    King Koopa Well-Known Member

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    I respect your opinion but just disagree…Wilson is a gunslinger at heart and can make big plays others can’t….I don’t think playing a safe, quick hitter/ timing offense does him any good if you’re not going to let him do what he does best a little more.

    Now there’s definitely a balance which you alluded to, and I can buy that, but yesterday was way too conservative. The only thing I can think of is Davis and Mims were out and they are/ should be the top 2 deep threats on the team

    If we wanted to run this offense, Mac Jones was the pick.
     
  7. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    The kid was also playing with a bad knee. The hardest part about an injury like that is trusting it . Joe burrow had this issue at the beginning of camp.

    With that being said Zach did not play very well but he gutted it up and pulled off the win. That was a good mental toughness check for Zach. I look forward to next week against Philly. The defense should be able to keep us in the game and Zach should be able to manage this game and give us a chance to win.

    I like how this kid bounced back from a really putrid first half but I expect more from him down the stretch.
     
    #187 cval, Nov 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  8. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    This SHOULD have been a catch. I am sorry, but on the run like this, across the body, a catchable ball is a great play. Wilson makes a great play, and Wesco should have had that ball. He got down, had both hands on it, but just messed up the final part of the catch, that's all there is to it.
     
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  9. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Just looking at some of the plays, mistakes do seem to be rooted in a bit of rust. Barrios pass should have been lower - almost resulted in INT. Two passes to Moore - one too hard, one a bit ahead of him. The fumble almost resulting in TO shouldn't have happened. This was not a great game from Zach, no doubt about it. I just think there was also a lot of good plays, particularly in the second half when he rebounded that people forget.

    He kept the drives alive multiple times passing to Cole, Barrios, and Moore. The Griffin pass should have been a TD. The TD run he had was a very difficult play: he had 3 guys on him and he was running right, then cut down the middle and had a full extension to cross into the end zone. He had enough good plays in the second half to get a much needed for morale W. Definitely looking forward to his next outing against Philly to see more progress.
     
  10. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Well-Known Member

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    Did you think Russell Wilson was regressing against the Packers a few weeks ago? Or did you think he was just rusty after missing a month?

    I personally think both situations were a QB being rusty after not getting real-life snaps for over a month. If Zach continues to play bad, then maybe he's regressing but I can't come to that conclusion after 1 game.
     
  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    The gunslinger thing rarely works in the NFL. Most of the best QB's are the accurate distributor types - Brady, Brees, Manning. Rodgers is a bit more on the gunslinger end of the spectrum but he's insanely careful with the ball so it works. Mahomes is a definite gunslinger but he's got an embarrassment of riches at skill positions and even Mahomes is showing the downsides of that style this season.

    I like that Wilson can throw down the field and is great on the run, but he's going to have to master the easy short stuff if he wants to be an elite QB.
     
  12. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Wilson looked like trash. Really, really terrible QBing. I would say he set the game back years but Cam Newton went 5-21 so I guess not

    I will say that I am happy that they won so he can learn that you don't need to throw 50 yard bombs all game to win in the NFL, you can still win by merely managing the game. However, what is going on with his accuracy?!? I think he should sit until he learns how to complete a 5 yard pass
     
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  13. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    You had me till the end. He is going to have to master the short stuff if he wants to BE an NFL QB, period. Not even elite.

    Grantland (RIP) did an analysis a few years ago. Only roughly 31% of passes in a given year are thrown greater than 10 yards down the field. If you were to take away the throwaways and spikes the completion percentage in the NFL for those passes is greater than 70%. Zach Wilson has a long way to go to even be an average NFL QB

    https://grantland.com/the-triangle/pass-atlas-a-map-of-where-nfl-quarterbacks-throw-the-ball/
     
  14. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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    For the record:

     
  15. King Koopa

    King Koopa Well-Known Member

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    I get it…maybe I’m not explaining it right, but I believe we should mix in a lot more Wilson rollouts and deep field shots. I understand it’s not the basis of NFL success, but why even draft Wilson if you want to make him strictly a pocket, short game passer, which is what we saw yesterday?
     
  16. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    If you let Zach just go bombs away he will make a bunch of very exciting plays alongside the 30 interceptions he throws.

    The fundamental problem with going bombs away against modern NFL defenses is that they can easily put 5 defenders in the mid to long range and then the odds are that one of them will have a better shot at the deep throw than the guy the pass is intended for. They can do this while also putting a lot of pressure on the QB.

    The answer is to spread out the defense and take what they give with the occasional deep throw to keep them honest. That's how a modern NFL offense moves. Great QB's with great arms can get away with more deep throws.

    The reason we're not letting Zach just rip it 5 times a game is that you have to create a context within which to do that, one where any play could be that throw and the defense has no idea if this is the play or not. 3 and outs can't get you there. incompletions on 1st and 2nd down can't get you there. Unfavorable down and distance situations can't get you there. You need to have a consistent offense running that then creates the context for a deep throw breaking the bend but don't break defenses trying to stop you.

    With Zach Wilson's current skill set and competencies the only way the Jets are going to profit off of his arm are with a very run heavy attack that forces the defenders to put 8 men in the box and gives him an unfiltered deep field to throw into when they decide to do that, to best effect probably on 1st and 10 after the Jets have grounded and pounded for a drive or two,.

    This is exactly the polar opposite of the offense the Jets want to run.

    Zach Wilson or the new offense. That's the choice.

    I'd put Mike White back in and develop the offense and then figure Zach out in training camp alongside at least one very competent addition.
     
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  17. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Elite Super Bowl winning quarterbacks get the benefit of the doubt of being rusty after being injured for the first time in their career.
     
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  18. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
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    Sounds about right, but I'd be interested to see the disparity in number of throws and, even more than that, yards-after-catch. I doubt they're getting their yards the same way. I'll bet that Mac Jones throws fewer passes on shorter routes with a higher YAC, while Zach Wilson is asked to do more with his arm.

    EDIT TO ADD: Out of curiosity, I just looked quickly at season totals, because I don't have the patience to look into each game. Aside from the number of total throws, there isn't the big difference in YAC that I thought I might see.
     
    #198 Sundayjack, Nov 29, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  19. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    It's possible this is the case.

    However it is also possible that they're both being asked to check down very conservatively and Jones is doing what he is being asked to do well and Wilson is not.
     
  20. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    When wondering what to think about things I’m unsure if I always look to people with experience in the matter
     

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