Repeat of Brick and Mangold (Jenkins and Humphrey)

Discussion in 'Draft' started by AJT73, Apr 16, 2021.

  1. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    One could argue that Becton is the new Brick. Just needs to stay healthy, but he's already missed more time than Brick did in his entire career.
     
  2. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    Tell us what long term success Brick and Mangold gave the Jets? Jets record 2006-2016 was 84-92. Yeah, they were good players, but like Revis, none of them got us to the promised land. The closest we came is when the Jets drafted a QB with the 6th pick in '09. That should tell you something about what you need to get over the finish line in the NFL. The Jets need offensive playmakers: QB, WR and RB more than they need OL help right now.
     
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  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely right - without a FQB and the weapons to support him you don't get far in the modern NFL. That said, you DO need a good OL. If Sanchez could get them within a game of the SB, I have no doubt that Darnold could've done at least as well. The travesty of this team was in not investing any premium assets on the "O" side - QB, weapons, OL - for years. Douglas started changing that last draft, and he has to continue. It looks like he will get a FQB, and has upgraded the WR room in FA. This class is deep in OL and RBs so I expect him to add to the offense significantly.
     
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  4. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Saleh can suck it. His D is already light years ahead of the offense. Most of the FA $s were spent on D. Most of the high draft picks over the last 5 years or so were used on D. It's an offensive league, and we need to ensure that our rookie QB succeeds, especially since he will be starting day one. We have a ton of picks in next year's draft that can mostly be used on D. This year, most of the picks need to go to the offense, especially those in the first 4 rounds.
     
  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I totally disagree. It's an excellent draft for OTs, not so much for IOL especially that fit our blocking scheme.
     
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  6. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    That offensive line and defense carried that team. Brick and Mangold were the foundation. Then they added Woody and Fanaca who created a clean pocket for a rookie qb to throw the ball to playmakers and open holes for Thomas Jones and Landanian Tomlinson. You need the oline before the playmakers. Right now we have Becton beyond that our qb will look like Darnold. No time. Sacks etc. I'm all for playmakers we need them but we need to protect first.

    Example look at the Chiefs in the Super Bowl. How did Mahomes look. Ordinary. Part of that was he had an injury. Other part he was missing his starting tackles. The offense was out of sync. Couldn't do anything. Build the wall first everything else will fall into place. Follow Parcels way of building a team. The game is won in the trenches. Whenever the Jets had their most success the oline was great. 2000-2005 Mawae hall of famer. Jumbo Elliot. Good veteran. Jason Fabini. Three very good pieced right there lead to success.

    The Jets will add a wr and rb in the draft I believe. Our top 4 wr are already better than what we've had in a long time. Corey Davis is rising. Mims we'll see showed promise last year. Hopefully he continues to improve. Crowder. Very good slot wr. QB best friend. Cloe a great fourth receiver. So good start there. RB. No one thrills me. Good players but nothing special. Be nice to upgrade there. Get someone electrifying. That being said if Lafleur could do what Shanahan did with the rbs we don't need a great one. Mostert, Jeff Wilson and Coleman who we have looked great. We'll see but definitely a believer in building the line up first.
     
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  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I disagree that once the OL is built everything will just fall into place. I think skill position players are too important and looking at recent Jets history, a lot of their struggles and failures can be directly placed to not placing a priority on getting topnotch skill position players or on the OL. I think it takes both, but if one has the opportunity to take a great skill position player or a great OL and both are needs, I'm going with the skill position player every time, except in a year like this where we're drafting a rookie QB, and our previous QB failed in part due to the poor OL we have. This year I'll put the premium on OL, but assuming JD drafts a top OL or two and the OL is better, going forward, I would take a skill position player over an OL if everything is equal.
     
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  8. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    You make a very good argument and I get the "build the OL first" groupthink. I remember that at one point the Jets had four #1 draft choices on the OL plus Brandon Moore who was an all-pro. Don't see how you can do much better than that, but it didn't get us very far. Or, the 2015 Dallas Cowboys had three #1's on the OL and went 4-12. The way I look at football is that there are certain players that are transcendent, meaning that they are going to be great no matter who is blocking up front. We all know the names: Manning, Brady, Favre, OJ Simpson, Tony Dorsett, Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, etc. even our own Curtis Martin. We need to move on from the philosophy if we just have a strong OL and and good D we can win. Maybe we can win, but you need the playmakers to get across the finish line.

    Right now the Jets have a decent OL with Becton. I don't know why they let Elflein walk. That was a JD mistake IMO. He played well beside Becton. In any event, it's time to get some playmakers and let them run. The Jets will undoubtedly draft at least one in Wilson. In all the evaluations of him I haven't heard one person say he's great because he had a good OL in front of him.
     
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  9. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you're saying. This year I put more emphasis on the line because it was awful. Next year 100% build the skill position. It's sad how bad it has been. I think the last time we went skill position was early 2000s with Moss and Coles. I'm all for taking oline at 23 or 34 and a skill position if the right one is there. Then oline in round 3. I think in the grand scheme with picks 23, 34, and the two thirds I'd like to come out with 2 ol and one skill. Unfortunately I fear they'll go cb in their (which is a need) but I'm really focused on building the o. Why I'm not the gm. probably be fired 5 minutes on the job.
     
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  10. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with you that we need playmakers too. I posted earlier. I'm not opposed to getting a playmaker especially if one is there at 23. I just would like 2 potential starting oline with our other 1-3rd round picks. If a wr or rb is their and is the pick at that point I'm all for it. We need weapons not only for Wilson but for us to enjoy watching. Have we had one since Curtis retired? Thomas Jones, Holmes, Edwards for a year or two and Marshall and Decker for a year. It's bad.
     
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  11. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    The trading of Darnold, eliminates us from drafting any of the top 3 WRs in this draft; Smith, Chase and Waddle. Wilson will be the pick at 2, but those WRs will be gone by 23. So that leaves RBs Etienne or Harris, either of which could be there at 23 and that's where I would go. Etienne has a chance to be one of those transcendent players and maybe Harris too. I think having a home run threat RB would do more to help Wilson at this point than another offensive lineman. Plus, as you point out, these guys would be exciting and entertaining. How many more boring "3 and outs" can we take?
     
  12. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your thinking. We need weapons. My issue is the line was awful last year and if we got Harris or Etienne they'd look like Bell. No where to go. If one of them is at 34 after we go oline at 23 I'm all for it. Me personally at 23 I'd rather a wr playmaker and oline at 34. I feel rbs can be found in later rounds not wrs. But again for me to do that it has to be a difference maker and oline later. Even better I'd trade back a few to get one of them and sure up the line wr and other areas with the extra picks.

    I don't disagree that we need playmakers and special ones. We'll see how the board breaks but knowing who we are and where we are at I'd put more emphasis on oline. That being said the right playmaker I'll put over oline just need at least two who can start this year. Becton above average lt. Little worried about injury. Both guard are awful. Center played well late current staff feel he's good and Fant is average. Probably start this year do fine but will need a replacement. In the grand scheme we'll know in just over a week but whatever we do some will be happy others not so but it'll be exciting. First time in a long time I feel there is hope for this team.
     
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  13. Jason MacIsaac

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    I am of the opinion that if a big 4 CB is available at 23, then the Jets will take him. Use the 34 and 66 on Samuel Cosmi and Wyatt Davis who are absolutely elite in zone concepts. You have a chance to build around Lafleur (while he is here) and establish a dominant offense off the zone.
     
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  14. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    Don't disagree with you. Horn Surtain I don't expect to be there. Newsome and Farley could. At that point what players are available and graded higher and any injury concerns specificaly Farley. At 23 and 34 I think they'll be so many options it'll be interesting to see where Douglas goes. 23, 34 and the two third round picks I'm expecting two oline, a playmaker and a cb. In what order we'll see but anything less I'd be upset unless he pushes cb to later to address the offense.

    Because of this I can definitely see a trade down with 23 or 34 to get more 2nd or 3rd round picks to address all the needs. 8 more days. Can't wait.
     
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