Pennington Haters are Unreal

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JetFanInTampa, Sep 30, 2007.

  1. MisterMoss

    MisterMoss PRO-American

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    Let's update these numbers, junc:

    NYG
    Code:
    [b]NY Jets	          Rush	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	FumL 
     T. Jones	13	36	2.8	7	0	0[/b]
    Philadelphia	Rush	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	FumL 
     C. Buckhalter	17	103	6.1	17	0	0
    Washington	Rush	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	FumL 
     C. Portis	14	60	4.3	16	1	0
    Green Bay	Rush	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	FumL 
     D. Wynn	10	50	5.0	38	2	0
    Dallas        	Rush	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	FumL 
     J. Jones	16	66	4.1	21	0	0 
     M. Barber III	11	65	5.9	19	1	0
    
    Jets leading rusher averaged 2.8 ypc against the Giants compared to 5.06 ypc by the rest of the league against the Giants. That's 2.26 ypc less than the league average.

    There is a clear pattern here.
     
  2. xxedge72x

    xxedge72x 2018 Gang Green QB Guru Award Winner

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    Junc, I respect you're opinion, but I think you're completely off base here. Nothing was proven by one game... one game against one of the best defenses in the league. Not to mention Kellen Clemens first start AND real QB play ever.

    Any quarterback in NFL history who has been successful has needed an opportunity to get a rhythym before the entire offense starts to go. You can't expect this out of KC in one game under the conditions they were under, playing because of an injured starter, not because he was taking over, against a defense like that.

    The fact is, teams DO stack the box because Chad is limited. The real problem isn't Chad's arm, it is his head. Lately, he has looked scared. We have seen it every so often where he is capable of winging a throw, and he usually finds Cotchery on these plays... but it usually only happens when the Jets are in dire straits and they need to make a play. Other teams know this and game plan accordingly. Pennington seems like he is afraid to attack when it is not necessary, and it hurts the offense in general.

    The fact is, Chad's arm isn't weak to the point where he just can't throw it as far as everyone else... it is weak to the point where he loses total velocity. That combined with his hesitance to make a mistake makes it VERY VERY difficult to push a defense back on its heels.

    I think one of the reasons a lot of people don't want to believe there is a problem with Chad is because earlier in his career this wasn't a problem. Back then, he would wing it (and made some spectacular plays doing so ala the Moss bomb) and defenses DID respect the pass game, and didn't play so tight. When Curtis was still running for us, this was the case, and he had room to run as a result. And since Curtis had room to run, he was effective, which made defenses have to worry about him AND Chad. Mix in the play action, and teams didn't know what to do.

    Now is a very VERY different story. Chad is not challenging anyone, and our running game is going nowhere. Play action is almost non existent. Defenses have no reason to fear us. They know our WRs are so good that they are going to make plays. You know what? That is fine. Games aren't won and lost on a couple of big WR plays here and there. Teams can deal with that. As long as they succeed at stop our driving shorts consistently (which they have done all season long), then the entire team is going to struggle.

    The fact is, the special teams has mostly done its part this season. The defense has struggled, but this is largely in part because the offense has not been scoring, and has not been staying on the field. So that narrows the MAIN problem down to the offense. At the beginning of the year I was screaming about the oline... but they have improved... yet the team has not. Why is this? It's because teams are not afraid of us, and can attack us.

    Ideally, you want your offense to be the attacker, and the defense to be the reactor. Unfortunately this season our offense has been the reactor, and the opposing defenses have been the attackers. Unless that changes, we will be miserable ALL YEAR LONG. There are a lot of problems on the offense, so you can't really blame anyone particular player. BUT, you can't just keep things as they are either. Something has to change. So what changes?

    The offensive line has improved. At this point we don't have anyone who can be an improvement over whoever is already on the field. So essentially, no changes here. Thomas Jones? When he actually is given the ball, he has done well, even without blocking. Leon Washington HAS been given touches, but to no avail. So no change there. Our wide receivers? They are spectacular. Bottom line. Our receivers are SICK. If anything, they are held back. They have never failed Chad (I'm ignoring McCareins completely... I consider him a goner). Tight end? Please. Changing Chris Baker the clutch touchdown maker isn't going to do diddly poo.

    So who does that leave?

    He got the blocking this Sunday. He got the receiver play. He didn't get the running, but the Giants were all over it. The failures of the offense were completely exemplified today by one person, and that is our fearless leader. He is not the same Chad of 02 or 04. We ALL want that Chad... but he is gone. One game alone I won't crucify him for, but so far we have an entire season of it.

    Yes, Chad has a high completion %, and a high QB rating. He is "efficient"... but he does not SCORE. We need someone who can score.

    Fortunately, QB is the position where we CAN upgrade. We have our future waiting to take his spot. If any single improvement is going to be made, the QB spot is it. Chad deserves a spot of honor in Jets history... but his days here are done.

    Teams do not fear the Jets, and they will not fear the Jets so long as the offense stays the way it is. If you give the kid an opportunity to start playing and to start developing a rhythym, then you give this offense a chance to turn the team around.

    And that is why I feel you are wrong.
     
  3. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    and it was Chad's fault we couldn't run the ball yesterday of course.

    I didn't say anything was proven by 1 game, Pennington bashers said Chad was the reason we couldn't run and Clemens arm would open up the running game and clearly in his 1 chance that did not happen and clearly over the last 5 years that has not been the case.

    The D has been our biggest problem all year. They are on the field alot b/c they can't stop anybody and they let opponents rip off long scoring drives. Just look at the Miami game, the D was on the field for 2 1/2 mins in the 3rd qtr so they should have been rested for the 4th, right? they nearly blew a 31-13 lead w under 13 mins to play.


    Chad has not been plying well the last 5 qtrs but again you guys act like it's all his fault. At Buf all the penalties killed drives, yesterday if Coles catchges that pass down the sideline who knows how the game changes. it's not all on Chad and that D gave up 4 long scoring drivs including a 99 yard TD drive to give up the lead an the D blew TWO 10 point leads. How this is all Chad's fault is beyond me.
     
  4. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    Junc it looks like this.


    Buffalo.

    11 Seconds left.


    Chad had two choices. Hit Baker coming from left to right wide open, attempt the FG, and go to OT or throw the moonball to Mc Careins.

    The pick was on poor decision making.




    Yesterday, and it was obscene when I rolled the tape back and re-watched it last night.


    9 men on the line, blitzing.

    2 Wr's to the right.

    2 corners 5 yards off.


    Pre snap....

    Corners start inching back to defend the goal line.

    at the snap, inside WR (Cotchery) goes toward Outside corner.

    Coles is Wide open with no one within7-10 yards of him, and Cotchery in a position to hit either corner as a blocker.

    Penny steps back and launches a moonball into double coverage, that the cornerback that was effectively useless (Originally had coverage on Cotchery, before he went outside...) on the play easily intercepted.

    Obscenely bad decision making, and thats supposed to be penny's best asset.


    If he doesnt throw that ball away, and then throw the pick 6 (which is also the second consecutive week that route has been jumped on him), we don;t lose yesterday.
     
  5. FREEJET

    FREEJET New Member

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    I like Chad and if you look at who would be a more effecient QB for the Jets this year it is probably Chad, but at 1-4 and with the schedule we have there is no way we are making the playoffs. We have a lot of young players...why not let them develop togather rather than two years down the road when Chad is gone and the rest of the youth has developed , now you have to wonder about Clemens. We all dont know if Clemens is actually the answer. You cant tell that from one or two games (everybody thought Chad was the next Joe Montana after his first season). Also, the offense does not scare anyone as we have no big play ability, unless Leon Washington has an unbelieveable run. This does filter into other parts of the game as the opponent knows they can take certain chances as the Jets are not able to strike back quickly. I would rather go 6-10 this year with Clemens than 8-8 with Chad, as it would not stunt the future growth of this team. Oh and lastly, it is so freaking boring watching the Jets with Chad as the QB!! I want to win, believe me, but I want to have a fun team to watch also. They are neither right now.
     
  6. red75bronco

    red75bronco Well-Known Member

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    Can someone who taped the game please count how many times they had more than 7 men in the box, this means more than 7 men within 6-7 yards of the LOS from TE to TE. I watched all game and only saw us run it once with more than 7 men in the box. I do not think this is the problem especially most running plays the RB is getting tackled behind the LOS.
     
  7. FOURTHANDLONG

    FOURTHANDLONG Active Member

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    The Rb is getting tackled behind the Los because every player on the opposing defense can play on the line or close to it. Everyone knows a check down or screen is coming so they don't have to play anyone deep. The lanes close before the plays get a chance to develop. THERE IS NO LINE THAT HAS EVER PLAYED THIS GAME THAT CAN COMPENSATE FOR CHAD AT THIS POINT! PERIOD!
     
  8. red75bronco

    red75bronco Well-Known Member

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    Our running game was better last year with the same QB. Please explain.
     
  9. FOURTHANDLONG

    FOURTHANDLONG Active Member

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    We played crappy teams like the Dolphins in 12 of our 16 games last year. We beat bad teams. We only played 4 teams that were over .500. Anybody can look good against scrubs.
     
  10. jcjet

    jcjet Member

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    It is Chad's fault he threw the interception in the end zone off his back foot into double coverage on 1st down
     
  11. Beamen

    Beamen New Member

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    Are you for real, junc? One of the worst parts about Chad is that he is so limited that whenever we have a play that loses yards on first down or second down, our drive is essentially over...

    I was watching the game yesterday with a few Giants fans, and they all thought it was hilarious how I could predict what Chad would do in response to a 2nd and long situation, and how we would never be able to pick up the first down....

    And you can't blame Coles for that pass along the sideline, because Coles bailed Chad out on two VERY DANGEROUS throws along the sidelines earlier in the game... Both of those catches Coles made, many WRs wouldn't have even gotten their hands on....
     
  12. Beamen

    Beamen New Member

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    I can only recall 3 or 4 times all game, where there weren't 11 defenders in my picture at the snap... The picture usually doesn't go further than 10 yards downfield.... Many teams against effective passing games play one or both of their safeties at 12-15 yards from the LOS... Not the Giants, why would they have?
     
  13. Coach K

    Coach K New Member

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    pete kendall was here, our offense was confusing to defenses because it was new. but now all the presnap motion is readable. the playcalling with the runs is less imaginative and more telegraphed.

    i could go on forever.

    chad still has to go bronco.:wink:
     
  14. Jtuds

    Jtuds Active Member

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    If you read it, it is. You just need a larger sample to actually see of those stats are significant...
     
  15. eyedea

    eyedea Active Member

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    At this point in the season why not stat clemens ?
     
  16. jetsfan4ever80

    jetsfan4ever80 New Member

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    The season is already over for us, it is time for us to start looking towards the future. I love Chad, I think he is a great leader, and really brings enthusiasm to the team but we just cannot win with him. The jump ball into double coverage was outrageous along with his other mistakes that took us out of the game. Our future can't really look much brighter with him, lets see what we can do with KC.
     
  17. Jtuds

    Jtuds Active Member

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    Chad still has to go meaning we need to get rid of him, or he still has to go meaning he needs to play?

    In my opinion, the problem is that Chad still moves the team down the field. Yesterday he executed an awesome scoring drive from our 7 yards line, and with the shit running game we have, that's pretty impressive. However, his poor decisions have hurt the offense in the last 2 games, but a lot of it has to do with the positions the defense is putting the O in. Though yesterday the second INT happened when we were in the lead.

    I would say give Kellen a chance. Philly is struggling and maybe we can outscore them. That's basically what we will have to do to win any game because we're playing with a high school defense. My belief is that we're going to lose no mater who is at QB because we don't have a powerhouse offense and our D is non-existent
     
  18. Jtuds

    Jtuds Active Member

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    In as many words that about the same way I feel....I doesn't matter now so whatever.
     
  19. The Uniform Bomber

    The Uniform Bomber Spivey's Agent

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    Junc, i think i finally figured it out.

    it seems you have some sort of fascination with calling out the people who think Chad is singlehandedly to blame. now, most of us rational people know it's not all Chad.

    we freely admit that the D isn't good, the running game is ineffective, and that the OL can be better (although it's improving every week, and Chad had plenty of time yesterday). but we also admit that Chad is a problem.

    that's where the difference is. you continue to try and blame every other aspect of the team other than Chad. yes, the D played a part in losing yesterday, but Chad played just as big of a part, if not bigger. you'll admit the D cost us, but you won't say Chad ALSO lost us the game.

    i'm sorry, but when the D gives the ball back to the O, down 4 with about 5 mins to left, they did their job. how does Pennington throwing a pick that pretty much sealed the game have anything to do with the rest of the game? every other mishap and miscue and penalty and blown coverage, had no bearing on the drive with a chance to win. Chad lost it right then and there, after the D had already done it's job by giving Chad a chance to lead a game winning drive and he blew it. even though it's clear as day, you won't just come out and say it.
     
  20. red75bronco

    red75bronco Well-Known Member

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    We threw the ball down field more yesterday than any game this year, including the 1st 3 quarters of the Baltimore game and we still could not run the football. I think part of the problem is all the shotgun. I think we would be bette out of the I with a full back and the QB under center. At least then we could use the PA.
     

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