OLB scheme fit, Cimini and Kiper

Discussion in 'Draft' started by gsulli5861, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    4 holes on the defense this year 2 OLB, 2 S
    4 holes on the offense this year 2 OG, 1 TE and 1 RB

    I'm talking starts becoming free agents without sure replacements

    if our draft for example is

    1- OLB
    2- RB
    3- OLB
    4- OL
    5- WR
    6- TE
    7- BPA

    I wouldn't be mad, point is if we drafted 2 bookend OLB's I'd be happy

    I'd be happy if we draft Eric Fisher and Barrett Jones in the 1st 2 rounds as well
     
  2. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    Fixed that for you.
     
  3. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    I figured that deserved its own category :lol:
     
  4. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    Rightfully so. Its almost the only position that matters. Unless you have one, you are going to just be a bad to mediocre team (the entire Jets history).

    How do you develop a franchise QB? You put a great group of talented weapons around him and dedicate your entire being to finding that franchise QB. How do you find talented weapons and a great OL to protect him? You surely dont spend 4 consecutive first round picks on defense and continue to bolster that side of the ball.
     
  5. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    How do I make arrangements for my cookie? Rather than just a play how about an entire package? The Jets already had a 4-3 package with Coples and Wilks as the DEs; it's called the "Taco" look. This was used through out the year. I was simply proposing we expand on something that already existed to account for the LB attrition. Whether or not he is "badly...misused" as a 4-3 DE is a conversation you may want to have with Rex Ryan and Pettine cause they don't seem to think so.

    Sorry I don't have any actual video but game film of Coples in a Jets uniform is not something I have laying around but I have some references below.

    http://thejetpress.com/2012/08/03/jets-to-work-quinton-coples-in-to-the-defense-slowly/2/

    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2012/08/jets_first-round_pick_de_quint.html

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/category/_/name/vladimir-ducasse

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/category/_/name/new-york-giants

    http://thejetsblog.com/bga/bga-bills-at-jets-part-two/

     
  6. 74

    74 Well-Known Member

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    Does the nacho package have pick six's and sack fumbles in it?
     
  7. Quack

    Quack New Member

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    Preseason bullshittery aside, I found your 'taco' front, and it didn't look good at all. I'm in the process of dealing with a rootkit on my main computer so I had to run off of online film - I found the NYJ-IND game and PMd you the link. Below is the Coples play log, and while there is, on occasion, the 'taco' front you found references to (which is largely while Wilkerson is out with injury), it has disastrous results.

    All in all the Jets had 69 total defensive snaps with 52 with Coples on the field (two additional plays I couldn't identify by jersey # and marked as such but it didn't look like he was there). 14 of those 52 plays (25%) had him outside the 5 position and of those 14 only 3 resulted in him doing something non-negative (neutral or positive) and one of those three involved him stunting inside anyway.

    You earned your cookie for hard work and you're exactly why I come to this board. If I'm wrong I want to know it and the only way outside of diligence is someone else trying to prove me wrong. Research is useless if only one person is doing it.

    [​IMG]

    I still say Coples is worthless outside the 5 though. On to the play log:

    If anyone else wants to double check PM me and I'll PM you the video link.

    Edit - Oh and Wilkerson and Coples were lined up outside (5+) a few times with Bryan Thomas at the nose vs shotgun sets but the majority of 4-5 receiver sets involved Wilkerson as a nose with Pace and Maybin as LDE and RDE respectively. Bryan Thomas, nose tackle extraordinaire, would've been even more entertaining if it weren't for the fact that Thomas is a better inside pass rusher than outside pass rusher. He even had one play where pancaked a guard on an inside stunt and flattened luck with a forearm smack to the head.
     
    #27 Quack, Feb 15, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  8. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Besides the fact your assessment is completely subjective, one game is not nearly enough of a sample. What's really not up for debate though is the fact that a 4-3 with Coples at DE is definitely doable and not some radical proposition.
     
  9. Quack

    Quack New Member

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    Coples at 4-3 DE resulted in an offense, that was otherwise completely shut down, making quick work of the NYJ defense and that's what's not up for debate. The radical proposition is that a full game's assessment is somehow "not nearly enough" while pure conjecture with zero evidence or assessment backing somehow is.

    I review three hours of film and the best you can do is "That's like, your opinion, man"? I take back the praise I gave you. You have the film link in your inbox. Do some work. Come back with something reasonable. I'm not even asking you to disprove what I showed: Just find some game film that, at the very least, muddles things. I've got evidence now. It's your turn.
     
  10. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Coples didn't play as much as you'd think he would have as a rookie. My guess is that Rex didn't find a lot of advantageous situations to use him in because he's not a great fit with the other personnel.

    Coples and Pouha are about as misfit a pair of defensive linemen as you can find. They just don't fit well together in anything.

    On the bright side there are a bunch of looks that Mo Wilk and Coples fit in and that's where the Jets are headed at this point.
     
  11. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted my cookie:breakdance:
     
  12. Quack

    Quack New Member

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    They fit together perfectly in a 4-3 with Pouha at nose and Coples at 3tech, the issue is that Wilkerson's ideal position in that alignment is the same as Coples, but unlike Coples, he can still play well as a LDE (5/6/7). The three of them fit together in a 3-4 as well.
     
  13. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    They don't though. The NT in a 4-3 has to be more disruptive than Pouha is. Just standing his ground isn't enough. Pouha has never shown the ability to go over a guard and push him around. He's hard to move around himself, which is what makes him a decent 3-4 NT but he doesn't bring the penetration that a 4-3 NT has to have.

    Coples is mediocre as a 3-4 DE. He's not big enough to do the job well and he does not penetrate well either when he's lined up in the 5 gap. He gets doubled by the guard and tackle too often and shut down. Where he excels is at 3T over a guard. That's where he makes a real difference.

    Pouha and Coples next to each other are like an odd couple with both of their skill sets not meshing well regardless of the formation. This is one of the reasons the Jets run defense blew chunks for much of last season. Two of the better players against the run don't work well next to each other. Devito wound up playing often on run downs next to Pouha because he's big enough to play DE well against the run. On passing downs the Jets often had no answer at NT and went with Mo Wilk at LE, Devito at the nose and Coples or Pace at RE.
     
  14. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    isn't the 3-4 de's job to occupy 2 blockers and allow the faster olb's make plays?if we had better olb play coples play would be more than adequate in the 3-4
     
  15. Mambo9

    Mambo9 Well-Known Member

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    Do any of you guys think Deion Jordan would be a tremendous pick? I think he can do it all. Maybe he's not as good a pass-rusher as other guys in this draft but his height and mobility have me excited about potentially having someone in coverage that can match up well against these giants playing TE nowadays.

    He could be a well-rounded OLB.
     
  16. chops44

    chops44 Active Member

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    Nah, let Rex draft and build a great defense.
    Then next season when he's fired and replaced with an offense guru, let that guy build the O.
     
  17. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    And then when Rex is gone and those players arent coached up...? Great idea. Why not build a great core on offense for that future offensive "guru" and hopefully franchise QB?
     
  18. chops44

    chops44 Active Member

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    Guess what?
    Even after Rex is fired the Jets will have defensive coaches.

    I'd rather have the offensive people pick their own players to mold.

    Let's look at some of Rex's choices for O:

    John "Cut after one year" Conner
    Stephan "Stone Hands" Hill
    Joe "will be a corner according to Rex" McKnight
    Vlad "no nickname will properly describe the pure suck" Ducasse
    Jordan "who?" White

    In fact the only decent player Rex has drafted on O is Kerley and he's not that good either.
    If we have to have Rex another year, let him do what he knows, not WASTE more picks.
     
    #38 chops44, Feb 17, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  19. Skicats

    Skicats Well-Known Member

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    Based solely on some video from the USC and Fresno State games, I didn't find Jordan worthy of the ninth pick. He seemed to get pushed around too much, including when he was trying to run around the OT.
     
  20. Harpua

    Harpua Well-Known Member

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    This post is so highly full of shit it made me LOL. Congrats on that.
     

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