Offensive Line this Preseason

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by jcass10, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    Just saw these tweets by Pro Football Focus (hopefully I embedded it correctly).





    This, to me, is very interesting. The Offensive Line has been the main scapegoat with respect to Hackenberg's poor play. Obviously, PFF isn't the end all be all, but perhaps Hackenberg not recognizing defenses and adjusting the line is making a much bigger difference than we are giving it credit for.

    And more importantly, this is all the more reason I'd like to see Petty (or McCown) with the 1's. It would give us a bit more intel on whether or not the OL is as bad as the fanbase seems to think it is.
     
  2. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    Those numbers are misleading, after they talking into account unlocked men? How long the blocks were held? Stats can lie, the offensive line doesn't pass the eyeball test. It's not even the pass blocking, they haven't run blocked well at all either.

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  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    This is certainly interesting.
     
  4. Martin&theJETS

    Martin&theJETS Well-Known Member

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    This is the epitome of why PFF is pointless.
     
  5. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    Those guys play against the oppositions 2nd and 3rd, let's see what the line does when they have to go up against the oppositions number one defense all game.

    Come back to me then with PFF efficiency ratings for jets oline.
     
  6. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    Stats can be misleading, but they can also be telling. The fact is, we dont know if a rusher is unblocked because the OL is inept, or because the QB should have changed protection.
     
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  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Do you have valid stats that contradict this?
     
  8. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    True, my reason is simple tho. It happened last year. Hell it got Petty hurt. Id wager its both, but Mangold called protections too. We have neglected the oline for years, many of us have said that long before this preseason.

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  9. Martin&theJETS

    Martin&theJETS Well-Known Member

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    Not off the top of my head. However, there are many of times when PFFs stats are skewed in an odd way. They have players ranked really high when to the eye they just are not that good. For example (something to this effect), Brian Winters was a top 5 guard in the NFL last year based on their metrics. That just isn't so.
     
  10. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of how accurate these stats are, they point out that each unit is not an island unto itself - they all affect the other units/players. If you didn't change any of the OL, but put a HOF QB or RB behind them, how much better would they look? Conversely, putting a poor-to-mediocre QB/RB behind them can make them look awful, yet the OL remains the same.
     
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  11. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    Stats without context.
    What's the break down game to game? We know vs Tennessee there was no pressure because of all the quick throws. Detroit took that away and put hack under duress.
    My father always told me figures lie and liars figure.
     
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  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Well I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you, but sometimes stats DO provide valid insight and I was wondering if you had anything to offset these. But, as I just posted, the problem with stats is that they usually don't take into consideration the overall synergy, plus and minus, and as you said, given a skewed picture. Plus, what Mark Twain said: "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damnable lies, and statistics".
     
  13. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    While it undermines my infuriation for the lack of attention to offensive personnel I think the OL issues are just a tad overblown.

    Many teams are just as worried over their OL as the Jets are.Theres been a drought on young OL talent for about 3 years now.What's more it's hard to build chemistry & depth w the Current practice/training restrictions.Teams are almost forced to take a trial by fire approach heading into the season.The jets are no different

    Bowles has done a poor job of managing the OL competitive depth chart.Continuing to juggle these lineups stands in the way of building cohesion..furthermore they still weren't settled on a blocking scheme heading into week 2 of TC..so you add it all up you've got a unit that begs for cohesion & schematic infrastructure juggling line ups across the board & still finding itself schematically.There are bound to be mid steps before you even consider the inexperience at other positional groups.

    I'd venture to say the OL panic artists need to step away from the ledge temporarily till we see what the final product is gonna look like & what chemistry can yield when things settle down.OL is the one positional group on O that can overcome talent deficiency by sum of all parts,preparation & quality coaching.
     
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  14. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    They could absolutely be a little misleading. But I think they can also be telling. This whole message board is under the impression that we have had the worst offensive line in the NFL,and that is the reason Hack has played so awful.

    Pro Football Focus believes they have had one of the best lines in the NFL, according to their metrics.

    Now, do I think the Jets have the 5th best line in football? Of course not. But perhaps its somewhere in the middle, and we are not putting Hackenberg behind a Junior Varsity Offensive Line. Maybe Hack just does not recognize defenses very well this early in his career.
     
  15. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    Its one of the groups that absolutely cant overcome a talent deficiency. That being said Hack is young, he just isnt ready yet, but having that putrid oline has made it harder for him.

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  16. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    It absolutely CAN overcome it.

    How many playoff teams have we seen the Steelers,Giants,packers & patriots in the last decade that have had supposed "putrid" OLs??

    But yet they still managed to contend for championships & never actually got their QB killed.So how were they able to accomplish this feat w porous talent upfront?Quality coaching combined w a cohesive unit playing within itself.

    Offensive line works as a unit more than any other on the field.It almost creates a singular entity.As such if a team gameplans well,has players who can offset each others weaknesses & execute said gameplan they can have just as much success as a talent laiden OL
     
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  17. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    None of those teams had putrid offensive lines. Not even close. The patriots havent had a bad oline in decades. Their problem was their defense, and now you see what happens when they have a good one. Youre just under the illusion they had a bad one. You really think those teams are risking their franchise qbs behind mediocre talent?

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  18. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Every single one of those teams have had OL issues at some point or another while still managing to compete.

    -Giants OL just from last year.Made the playoffs didn't they?Fans are still bitching that their OL is a mess.

    -Packers have had all sorts of problems protecting Rodgers.Some of the pass pro we've seen from them in prime time is down right pitiful.Even worse than our lowly Jets

    -Steelers OL has been far from perfect for a long time..Big Ben takes his share of big hits,they rarely grant a clean pocket & the run blocking is inconsistent;Still win ball games & still in hunt for the playoffs

    -Patriots OL has never been stacked under BB.Mankins was a good player as is Solder & Vollmer..but Brady has taken a ton of big hits over the years & are we really gonna overlook 2007 when Justin overrated Tuck plowed through the A gap at will singlehandedly costing the Patriots a ring??

    But the Patriots actually make my point for me.While they usually have acouple horses up front..they have a prototype they stick to that over rides individual talent.Its About sum of all parts & executing a gameplan
     
  19. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    The patriots succeed without brady because of their line last season protecting inexperienced qbs. Seriously dude.

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  20. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Seriously dude...the same line that got Garrapolo hurt in only his third start??

    Try again
     

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