NYYankees @ Boston RedSox Series Thread

I like the pitching matchups, though I wish Wakefield and Lester were flipped. Lester has probably been the best pitcher for the Sox this year.

 

joba is going to run shit

 

big fuckin series huh

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242008/sports/yankees/posada_decides_to_delay_surgery_121247.htm

I'd love Kemp, but not for Cano.

 

No, no, no, and no.

I was down on Cano earlier this year, but he's proven to me once and for all that while he may start every year really slowly, he'll more than make up for it by the end.

I wanted Lowe when he first left the Sox. Now? Not so much. Plus, I want Abreu to return.

 

They would probably only do it if they got Billingsley back. But the Dodgers obviously wouldn't do that since, not only is Billingsley a stud, but Kemp has a higher ceiling than Cano. Wow... now I'm having dreams of Torre getting involved and telling them to trade Kemp (someone he doesn't like for some reason) and Billingsley for Cano (Torre always loves the players he's used to)... that would make up for his last 4 years here. Too bad the Dodgers are probably not morons.

And unless Abreu heats up, he really has no business being back next year unless it's 1 yr. at half his current salary and he moves out of the #3 spot. He's not good enough anymore for the spot he fills on this team, but he's also good enough to get a multi-year deal this off-season and get us a draft pick.

 

I don't know anything about Billingsley and Kemp, so I'll just bow to your knowledge and hope that if it happens, it really is for the best. I don't know if I'd be so quick to say the Dodgers aren't morons. They did hire Torre, after all. (I saw him on Sportscenter last night, and he still had that same "Nuuuhhhh, what's going on? Who woke me up?" look on his face. I'm so glad I don't have to see that anymore. No matter what Girardi does that might piss me off, it'll never match that look.)

As for Abreu, he should never have been a #3 guy in the first place. The guy is a #6 hitter, and has been for at least his entire time here, if not longer. That doesn't mean I don't want him back. His arm makes up for a lot of his shortcomings. As I'm sure you've figured out, I think defense before offense. The only problem I have with Abreu defensively is his irrational fear of the wall. That only comes into play 3 or 4 times a year though, so I'm mostly willing to overlook it.

Now if you give me someone who can play right field with a gun for an arm, who can hit, plus a center fielder that can actually hit the ball, then I'd be willing to drop Abreu. Right now though, Abreu is the best overall outfielder we have. Damon is clearly a better hitter, and Melky is possibly a better defensive option, but neither has the other piece in an acceptable form (arguably Damon thanks to his speed, but his arm couldn't outthrow my infant's).

Of course I'd love to revamp the entire outfield. I doubt that makes much sense though, given that we have some guys who are getting close to ready for promotion. Then again, those guys may be trade bait for proven commodities, and all arguments fly out of the window.

 

Don't bother hoping it happens. That was just me having a real life wet dream.

As for Abreu, I've always liked him and still do. It's not that I'm completely against re-signing him, but I'd rather take my chances in the trade or FA market (Bradley, Dunn, Nady, etc.) and get the draft pick for Abreu. If we sign two of CC, Sheets, and Teixeira, we're going to need to get some picks for Abreu, Giambi, Farnsworth, maybe Mussina.

 

I think Giambi is probably gone. I also see Moose gone unless he makes a difference in October. I think Farnsworth will be back, and probably Abreu as well.

I've been saying for years I want Teixeira, so I won't beat that dead horse. Obviously that makes up in bunches for Giambi.

Sabathia easily makes up for Mussina, but I don't see a problem with having both.

I highly doubt we bring in both Sheets and Sabathia, regardless of what happens with Tex. Imagine all three though. WoW.

As far as Abreu, I have no problem leaving him out of our future if the Yankees are ready to revamp the entire outfield. That means no more Damon, no more Melky, and no more thoughts of Gardner. If we're going to dump the best player we have in the outfield, we should just go full-overhaul. It would really help if we had at least one guy in the minors ready to step up by September call ups. I can't see retooling an entire outfield in free agency alone. Not with Cy Young pitching talent available this year on the market. Not to mention the potential for the first real first baseman in pinstripes since Tino.

 

I'm not impressed by stats of anyone playing in the God awful NL west... I don't care who it is... if you trade for anyone out of that divison to the AL you're taking a huge risk

 

They wouldn't have to retool an entire outfield, that's just your plan. Damon would still be around (as he should be), so would Melky, and Gardner will be in his "second stint" (I'd go through the whole thing again, but it's probably not worth it). The way Jackson has progressed he could be ready by mid-2009. They would just need to replace Abreu.

I guess we just disagree on Abreu. I see that his defense is mediocre (not counting his ridiculous fear of walls) and his arm is still solid but has lost almost all accuracy. His offense has been in decline for a few years now. I'd say Damon is easily better than him at this point. I hope either Abreu gets red hot the rest of the way, or Cashman looks to replace him via FA or trade this off-season.

 

I thought Damon's contract was up? If not, my bad, he'll still be here and rightfully so.

Melky should be gone. I've been his biggest fan, but the guy just can't get it together at the plate. He needs to be replaced. I'd take him in left if we put a big-time center fielder in his place.

I'm convinced Gardner is never going to be a good MLB ballplayer. He can't hit worth a lick, and his K total in the minors doesn't dispute that. His arm is terrible, and he makes poor decisions.

I'm not sure how you can believe that Abreu's defense is mediocre and not see that Gardner's is atrocious. Us disagreeing is fine though. It gets boring when we start agreeing on everything. :wink:

 

You can say what you want about Gardner's bat, but one bad play doesn't make him a bad defensive player. Other than that bad dive, he's been fine. No one was worse defensively than Melky when he was first called up in 2005. Who would you rather have in CF today, he or Damon?

Gardner's K rate was a little high (yet it was neutralized by his BB rate), but again, every single year in his career he was promoted to a new level in season, he struggled. Then adjusted for the next year and was successful. Struggled in 2006 when he was called up to AA, then was really good in 2007. Struggled in 2007 when he was called up to AAA, then was really good in 2008. I'm not even expecting him to ever start for the Yankees down the road, but I'll never understand the people that plead for Cashman to stick with the young players, then once they struggle (which everyone SHOULD expect, especially given Gardner's track record), they're never going to be good. If people actually give him some time and let him adjust as he's done at every single level of baseball he's played at, they're going to get .280/.370/.400 with phenomenal speed and good defense. That's a very valuable player. This is a guy who struggles early on at a new level as he adjusts his game, but once he does, he gets better and better.

 

Obviously Melky is a superior CF to Damon, but that's more to do with his ability to use his arm to make up for his shortcomings than him being a better fielder. Damon is much smarter in the field than Melky, he just doesn't have the same physical blessings.

I'm not saying Gardner shouldn't get a chance to go down to Scranton, then maybe get another shot in Spring Training. I just don't believe it will matter. The guy has a poor arm that looks more impressive because his motion is so long. He cannot reach third base from mid-left field on a fly. Even Damon can do that. Plus, he refuses to throw to his cutoff man. Who is he trying to impress by throwing to a base? Especially when he can't reach it?

When I was at the game on the 4th (when Damon got hurt), I saw just how bad his arm really is. I have no idea what it looked like on tv, but he threw a ball from mid-left toward ARod. Alex was standing even with the bag, and it reached him on two hops. Two hops! I can throw better than that with my left hand.

At the plate, who knows? Maybe he'll learn to hit major league pitching. Great. He'd make a wonderful late-inning pinch player. Right now, all he's got going for him is his ability to pinch run. He's not even a defensive upgrade. If he goes back down now, plays well, then gets another shot at the bigs, I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Hell, if I gave Duncan a chance, the least I can do is give Gardner a chance.

Besides, if you told me right now I could pick one player to be booted off the team and never seen in pinstripes again, it wouldn't be Gardner. It would most definitely be LaToya Hawkins. Holy shit what a waste he is. I don't even dislike Betemit as much as him.

 

Well, Ned Coletti is the Dodgers GM. I wouldn't rule anything out when you're dealing with a Brian Sabean disciple.

 

Mussina, Giambi, Farnsworth all having huge contract years. Where are the morons who say that doesn't exist? Just look at Posada last year. I wouldn't be surprised to see Pavano come back and win 6 straight starts to end the year.

 

They definetly exist.

 

There are people here who will tell you it's just coincidence.

 

That's because it is. Look at Andruw Jones last year. A contract year and it's his worst year ever. Well, until this year anyway. Varitek has been terrible this year. It's a myth.