NT prospects

my #1 is Raji from Boston, but i doubt he declares, and even if he does, we?re back at the "Manginiguy"-BS, same with my #2 Shirly. Both should be mid rounders, that?s y i like them.

Maybe Okam puts some more pounds on for the Combine, he has the Frame and ability to put on another 10-15 pounds, if he does, he could be the Answer.

But overall, there?s just noone, to go crazy about this year. I doubt we find our "true NT" in this years draft.

 

You draft BOTH, Okam, and Jason Shirley from Fresno, and don't sit on your hands you need to grab him no later than the fourth.

If you can trade an existing player, for a 3rd, you do it, and bring Both guys into camp.

 

You don't have pass rushing defensive ends in a 3-4, and we're not changing systems. Long is not really a fit.

I think we should focus on finding our nose in free agency. A guy like Sopoaga would be a good fit, and I don't really see much in this draft that I'm in love with. I do like Red Bryant, but who knows? You can't really go into the draft looking for a nose and let the chips fall where they may. That's a recipe for disaster.

-X-

 

i like this idea the best.

 

nyj55 is a BC Fan, so he might have the best insight on this board about him.

 

325 isn't really too light. You have to be careful with guys heavier than that because they often become purely rotational players. Remember, Sopoaga is the guy who set the Combine record for the bench press. He's very strong. You're not talking about a soft 325.

-X-

 

Have you ever seen Jason Shirley play? I've actually had the chance to see him play...in person, while I was at Fresno State and he isn't a 3-4 nose tackle. He might be big, but #1 he is stupid: Pat Hill gave him a second chance after his first DUI and the night after his first game back, he was arrested AGAIN. #2 Shirley isn't a dominant force, even in the 4-3 that Fresno runs. He takes plays off and gets pushed around. Their run defense became worse with him suspended, but I blame that on the fact that we had an undersized freshman, two sophomores, and a converted senior linebacker on the DL. A lot of injuries plagued the Dawgs this season.

Jason Shirley is a wasted talent, and he played great IN A ROTATION last season, but a big part of that is on former Fresno DT Louis Leonard. He was around 315+ pounds and he was probably the best tackle, besides former Jet Alan Harper.

Shirley can't play nose, at least as a full-time starter...You guys are just looking at his size, assuming that just because he is a big bodied DT, that he can play NT. That's not always the case.

 

Wow 360 pounds AND a great 40? No one would have a NT then.

Without Raji (I don't think he declares) the only true NT prospect I can think of is Frank Morton from Tulane.

I think MrElectric underrates the crap out of Shirley. When I've seen Shirley the guy was just dominant. I don't think he's a NT though. He's pretty athletic for his size and is one of those guys who could handle any spot on the 3-4 line. His problem is character, and I honestly have no interest in drafting him because of it. He's a nasty, mean talent that commands a double team, at least when I saw him, but he's pretty much spent his whole college career fucking up and thats not cool.

I have no idea why Okam is even being mentioned. Everything Electric said about Shirley should be said about this guy.

One guy who should draw attention if he comes out is Antonio Dixon from Miami. Miami DL guys are underrated right now (Atkins and Brown last year) because of how crappy that offense is, but he's big (6'3 330) and was described as a "more athletic Vince Wilfork" when he was recruited.

Ron Brace, Raji's teammate, probably isn't going to come out but I wish he did.

Henry Smith from Texas A&M is an interesting guy that'll be in this draft.

Ahtyba Rubin is a name I recently heard, and he's got the size definitely.

NEXT years NT class will definitely be more interesting than this one: Brace, Raji, Dixon (if he doesn't come out this year), Terrence Taylor, Jesse Bowman, and Tonga Tea are all seniors.

This years class...if we're lucky Dixon declares or Raji decides to change his mind...but more than likely we're picking between Morton, Smith, and Rubin. None of these guys are bad, but none of them are big time NT prospects either.

Oh yea...South Florida's Clebert has the size, but when someone pointed him out and I looked at him he was getting pushed around ALOT. That was when S. Florida got cold though, and I would have liked to see him when he was going well. He's one of those guys who needs NFL training though. He's an athlete right now, but his legs need some work and he'll need better training.

 

I don't underrated him...everyone here overrates him because of his size. Shirley's stupidity ruined what could've been a good Fresno State defense this season.

I never said he was a bad player, I just don't think he's a NT. He was invisible is some games as a junior. He can be dominant in the first and second quarters, but after that, he just runs out of steam and spends most of the defensive snaps on the sideline.

He never demanded a double team in 2006. Tyler Clutts and Jason Roberts, Fresno's nasty pass rushers usually saw double teams. Fresno's other DT Louis Leonard was double teamed over Shirley, because he never came to the bench for a breather like Shirley. Leonard played hard. He's big, but I wouldn't call him nasty and athletic. He only started to mess up this year and he couldn't have picked worse timing. Shirley may have seen double teams THIS season, but he wasn't playing, was he?

I just wanted to throw this in too: Last year in '06, Jason Shirley took over as the team's #2 defensive tackle and the Dawg's run defense became horrible. Last season, the defense was getting pushed around up front and that caused the worst season in Pat Hill's history at Fresno: 4-8. With Shirley gone, the run defense still isn't solid, but it actually improved without him -- and the Dawgs are 8-4 with close losses to Texas A&M and Hawaii.

 

I like him better at DE than NT.

 

It was verrrrry stupid not to sign Grady Jackson as a stop gap so we had time to find our ideal player. Jackson is exactly the type of player we need inside right now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/08/s...tml?_r=1&pagewanted=all&position=&oref=slogin

 

You do realize how different playing 3-4 NT is from playing 4-3 NT right?

 

The problem with finding a NT is that it's tough to find guys who can actually hold their own against two blockers. A lot of NTs can take on two blocks, but get pushed back really easily. I don't necessarily think the 3-4 is bad for this team, we just need a few more pieces. Okam is a guy that we should definitely take a chance on. I think people on this board are getting two infatuated with the weight issue. If you look at a some good 3-4 players like Chris Canty they weren't exactly the right size coming out of college, but they did put on weight when they got to the pro level. Okam is also a Texas guy, which has produced Casey Hampton and Shaun Rodgers. He is in the same mold and he has had a good year. I just hope he's got character since that's what Mangini wants. I would be ecstatic if we somehow got him in the 2nd round and in the first round we got Long or McFadden.

 

Yes I do and thanks for inquiring. Now, if you don't mind, what is your point?

 

Okam needs to blow away at the combine, cause he was mediocre at best this season.

Not only that, but he's not built like a 3-4 NT at all, and is better suited for end.

Thats...if I even liked the guy. He's like Red Bryant. He has no clue how to play with leverage and he's always playing tall. He can be pushed around because of it, and he's just raw as hell for a guy whose a senior in college.

I'd take a flier on him if he falls to the fourth or something, but he's one of those guys whose going to need a good combine. He looks the part, but I just don't buy see it wit him.

We don't have to focus on NT to improve the DL. Kentwan Balmer is probably the most talented two gap player in this whole draft, and would be beautiful in the early second. Sucks that the 49ers pick before us in the second, and that he's flying up and might go in the late first anyway...but we've seen Mangini trade up for guys he wants and Balmer is a high motor, productive, big 2 gaper that would be a perfect fit as a 3-4 end. Dre Moore would be a nice consolation prize though.