No excuses...

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by ColoradoContrails, Sep 28, 2019.

  1. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I thought of embedding this in one of the other threads, but decided it should be on its own. If the mods think it should be merged with another thread, do it:

    From the sidebar articles on the main Forum page:

    https://www.ganggreennation.com/2019/9/28/20882141/no-excuses-for-the-jets

    This nails it. It's a long article, but worth the read. Even after reading, I know some people here are going to reject its conclusions, but I think the article makes a very valid point: The Jets can and should do better, even with all the injuries and new people - especially because of the new people who are supposedly better than those they replaced.

    Anyway, here's the upshot:

    "The problem is not that the Jets lost, but rather they have not even been close to competitive in their last two games. They were embarrassed on Monday night at home against Cleveland. Yet Cleveland who looked very ordinary at their own home against the Rams.

    With all the spread influences in the game now, the RPO (run=pass options), the read option, and a myriad of other variations you can use in offense these days, why are the Jets so stagnant? We are the Jets, but we are the only team without a jet sweep. You have to stress the defense if you want chunk plays. I don’t see that. I didn’t see it in Miami the last three years either. This is an utter failure by the coaching staff and by the players also for not demanding better. If you have a player with talent you have to put him in positions to succeed, not just run him continually off tackle.

    Where is this offensive genius we have heard about? Where is the motion to see what coverage is being played? Where are a few quick hitting passes designed to jump start a drive and get a couple first downs. Where is a rub route (which every team runs) to convert a third down? How about stacked receivers which allows for a free release plus confusion for the defense? Do something to make the defense think, when they have to think they can make a mistake. I see no innovation, no energy from the players, and no speeding up the offense.

    We get an occasional motion man or a bunch receiver set, but they provide no real advantage to the Jets. When you have complex offensive sets you need to have some idea of what you can get out of them, what the QB should expect to find when the play unfolds.

    Remember that the first game was played entirely by Sam Darnold at home, and the Jets scored a total of 8 offensive points, one TD and one two point conversion. That is the entire scoring summart for Sam Darnold. The Jets added a 47 yard drive against Cleveland for a field goal. That is all the offensive scoring for 3 games. That is a total of 2 scoring drives in 36 total possessions.

    There is no excuse for that."
     
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  2. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure Gase would change his offense if he were capable of it. IMO he isn't stupid, he knows his offense is bad. But he was never qualified to be an NFL HC to begin with because he's basically a guy who caught a ton of lucky breaks.

    It started when he happened to go the school that had Saban before Saban became famous. If he went anywhere else, nobody would have heard of him. That got him to be a position coach in the NFL. Then he happened to end up on a team that signed Peyton, the QB who changed plays at the line more than any QB in history. They let him be OC because Peyton doesn't need a real OC, and Peyton made him look good. He then leveraged that into a HC job in Miami where his teams were terrible but got lucky in almost every close game. If the team had a normal record in close games, he would have been the next Joe Philbin. Finally he found an owner who doesn't know anything about football and got himself hired again.

    So why doesn't Gase adapt and call more innovative plays? That's like asking a random grad assistant why he can't adapt and call innovative plays at the NFL level. Gase can't do it because what we saw in Miami and what we're seeing here are all he's got.
     
    #2 HomeoftheJets, Sep 28, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  3. footballfundamentals

    footballfundamentals Active Member

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    I get it but you are expecting to run 'real offensive plays' when the offensive line can barely run and pass block. I think that if there is any cohesion with the offensive line, we will see the offense open up.

    Btw I did not read the article.
     
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  4. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    First of all, the coach is responsible for the blocking schemes. Second, the line is performing much worse than anyone thought it would this offseason when we already knew who the linemen were. And third, these plays are the same ones he called for the last three years in Miami.
     
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  5. footballfundamentals

    footballfundamentals Active Member

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    1...Yes
    2...Possibly
    3...likely
     
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  6. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Always helpful to get an informed opinion.:rolleyes:
     
  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    From the cited article:

    Seriously? Even though I admittedly don't keep up with other teams in the NFL, has any other team really experienced the following to start the season?

    Has a new HC and new DC with a new system
    Loses a key starter on D who (I think) led the team in tackles the previous season before the season begins
    Loses a starting WR (their tallest and perhaps closest to a #1 WR) to injury in the 1st game of the season
    Has a new offensive system, a new OL coach, two new starters on the OL, and then get almost no practice time together in TC and no game reps in preseason, all while having one of the less talented OLs in the NFL
    Has their starting QB get sick with mono before the 1st game, and then misses the next two
    Loses their backup QB halfway through their 2nd game and then has to go with their 3rd string QB the rest of the 2nd game (over a half) and the 3rd and possibly 4th games
    Loses one of their two best defensive starters who is also a leader and signal caller halfway through the 1st game
    Loses one of their other two starting LBs to suspension before the season for 6 games and the other to injury
    Has their starting TE and backup DT suspended 4 games and 6 games respectively, prior to the season
    Knows before the season that both starting CBs are questionable at best (that it's too late to do anything of substance about it), then sees their #1 CB play like shit and have to bench him
    Having the toughest part of their schedule (which is probably one of the toughest in the NFL) early, while all those players are out

    Gase could still genuinely suck, his system and playcalling conservative, limited, predictable and bad, but I doubt whether any other HCs or OCs have had this kind of adversity just prior to the beginning of the season and this early in the season and done any better. IMO to expect anyone to have overcome this not realistic. It's easy for fans to sit back, play Monday Morning QB and criticize.

    If I'm wrong and there are others who had had worse injuries and circumstances to start a season under than the Jets, please enlighten me. If I'm wrong, I'll be all to happy to admit it.
     
    #7 NCJetsfan, Sep 28, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  8. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta be one of your best Posts

    Coaching IS everything..players also have to want to perform

    Agree it's not necessarily about being 0-3 ...although that's bad..it's how COMPETITIVE this team is or isnt

    The only ad that NE has over Jets is that BB ( with 6 SB wins) commands immediate respect with just about every player that finds himself on the Pats ( well not everyone..like A Brown ..they get kicked off the team lol)

    So for each individual player the personal motivation is strong or Bellichek lets you hear it. The coaching and game plan are in place...so if the team loses you are not "doing your job"

    With Gase and Company it's a sh^tty game plan but he decides to ridicule and blame players in stead of taking responsibility...very dumb move

    Hey Chris J Thanks for finding us another crappy CS...>>>>pretty depressing
     
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  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    It's arguable whether the Jets "haven't fared too badly compared to other teams", but it's also not like they've been dealt a far worse hand. Still, the main issue is that Gase is not showing any creativity in trying to address these issues, he's not adapting to the circumstances...it seems more like he's insisting on doing things "business as usual", and when that (predictably) doesn't work, he just blames the players for not "executing".

    The more I think about Gase, the more I'm puzzled: in what way has he ever shown that he's special? I just don't see it. He's ridden the coattails of truly special people, and then reaped the rewards. I'm of the belief that the Johnsons got duped once again.
     
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  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    This article is actually full of holes and BS statements. In short, it is awful. It's written by a fan who thinks he is super knowledgeable, and his comments clearly reveal that he doesn't know jack.

    I say prove it. Many posters here were saying what a great CS we have. I'll focus just on the offense and STs, since they are the ones struggling. Granted our OC is a joke. Supposedly, we have one of the better OL coaches in the NFL or at least someone who is respected. We have Shawn Jefferson and Hines Ward working with our WRs. Our RB coach is a former offensive assistant, QB coach, and OC. Our STs Coordinator led some of the best STs play they'd ever had last season, and had two players on his unit make All Pro.

    Granted, Williamson is not great in coverage, but then neither is Mosley. His position is not that big of a deal. It's not like he's been moved to S or the DL. He was our leading tackler last season. You don't lose a player like that and just say "next man up, it's no loss." The Jets had plenty of time to find a replacement and had waivers? OMG I didn't realize that! Why didn't they bring in a future HOFer to replace him with that opportunity? They chose not to do so? ROFLMFAO!!!!!! What a moron!

    Who says that Enunwa was always going to be the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game? Even if that's true, he had a knack for making big catches and getting his teammates fired up. He has size and skills that none of the other WRs offer, and added another dimension to our offense. To say that he "is as replaceable as an acquisition off the waiver wire" is downright stupid and flat out wrong.

    Siemian played poorly, but he was not a poor backup. He had good experience and a winning record as a starter. He was a good game manager who didn't beat himself. How much he was making had zero to do with how he played on the field. Many posters here were saying prior to the season that we felt we had the best backup QB we had had in a long, long time and that we felt the most confident in the QB position that we had in a long time.

    Being back for the Eagles game doesn't help the earlier games. That's just a stupid comment to rationalize your opinion. He was a leading part of our offense last season. He's an excellent two-way TE, and he had great chemistry with Sam. To act like it's no big deal that he has been out again is just flat out wrong and stupid.

    Again, a stupid comment. You don't just replace one of the best ILBs/MLBs in the NFL. You don't just replace your whole starting LB corps and expect the same level of play and rationalize it with a dumb slogan.

    He also lists our starting OL and their experience as if that explains everything. It doesn't. It does show that Beacham is older (30). We all know that some player's skills vanish quickly at 30, even if many OL can play well into their 30s. Beacham has been pretty solid the last two years. Either he doesn't fit this system, or his skills have vanished over the off season. The latter can't be predicted or changed, but perhaps the former can. Osemele was very good in a man-to-man blocking scheme. He struggled badly last year in a zone blocking scheme. Bringing him in to play a zone scheme here was stupid. Kalil looked done at the end of last season. He's 34. We all hoped that he could get by on experience and instincts, but he has looked awful and lost. Again, it could be the blocking scheme/system, or Kalil could be toast. Winters is below average and always has been. Shells has perhaps been average, although supposedly his play last season wasn't as good as before and he's not been very good this season. He's younger, so age shouldn't be a problem. It could be the system, or he could still be suffering some effects from his injury.
     
    #10 NCJetsfan, Sep 28, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
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  11. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope you are right my friend..we all want you to be right

    We find out when all players healthy
     
  12. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Until someone shows me concrete evidence otherwise, I will continue to think the Jets have been dealt a far worse hand. The Jets have some unique circumstances. It's not just about injuries, and for the author to compare the Jets with the Patriots is just laughable. They have Belichick and Brady and the best OL coach in the NFL.

    Gase may be nothing special, and he may indeed have "duped" the Johnsons. That's not difficult to do.

    I can understand his approach. It's easy for us to ask why he hasn't done this or done that, but we haven't been there in practice and seen first-hand how the players have practiced. Maybe he has tried those things in practice and they were a complete disaster. In addition, if they can't execute the basic offense that they've been practicing for over 2 months, how can they be expected to execute something brand new or more challenging? A coach has to have confidence in his system. I would have zero confidence in a HC that panicked and just chucked his system 3 games into a season, when his starting QB has been out, he knew going into the season that his OL was probably going to be a challenge at best, especially early in the season, and all the other problems he has had to contend with. In a way, the only way to improve your team's execution is to keep running the plays over and over until they adjust, learn their assignments, and get them right. Now, if the system were that flawed, I would think that we would have heard some real grumblings from the players by now, and we haven't. Bell has been taking a pounding. If the blocking scheme is fakakta, why hasn't Bell said something? Further, I don't think it realistic to expect a new HC to just chuck his system 3 games into his first season with a team. He's trying to get his system learned and established. If he does, it would admit that his system was lousy, not a good fit for the talent on hand, and that he shouldn't have been hired. Who is gonna do that?
     
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  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. All of the posters who are claiming that Gase is an awful HC could definitely be right. I just think it's too early, and that he's had too much to over come to make that determination now. Yes, there are things that are a concern and bear watching. Once Sam and Herndon get back, the offense needs to show some real life and start scoring points, if not, then we still may not know, because the OL could be so bad that it doesn't matter what plays Gase or anyone else calls, but at least we should have a better idea. If the OL starts playing better and with some consistency and the offense still struggles, then we'll know for certain that it's Gase.
     
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  14. CBG

    CBG Well-Known Member

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    with 2 additions the line looks worse than last year , just amazing
     
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  15. footballfundamentals

    footballfundamentals Active Member

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    I do not need outside influences to form my opinion..
     
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  16. cmcm750203

    cmcm750203 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t get why people are making excuses for Gase. That’s the headscratcher here. This is a guy who came over from a division rival. We know what he is. It’s not like he’s gonna magically change overnight. And I really wish people would stop referencing belichick when a coach is fired and gets a second chance. Belichick was a fucking defensive genius not some asshole who rode the coattails of his qb (or lb in his case).

    This was an awful hire from the word go. I came around closer to the season hoping that maybe, just maybe having Sam at qb would change his style, but that first game lost me. It was just so uncreative and dull. I hope to god I’m wrong but if I’m not I really hope they pull the plug quickly.
     
  17. jets_fan

    jets_fan Well-Known Member

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    The first step towards correcting the offense is for everyone, be it in the Jets organization, the media, and everywhere else, stop referring to Gase as some variation of the "offensive genius" term. He's not. He's nowhere close to that. This allows for expectations to be properly adjusted, because short of a Peyton Manning-caliber QB walking into the building, Gase isn't going to get this team into the top half of the league in offensive production. If there's going to be any chance of anything resembling success this season, they're going to have to go back to the 2000s Buccaneers strategy, where the defense told the offense to simply get them 17 points and they'd do the rest. That's what Gase needs to do, figure out a way to get 2 TDs and a FG and then put it in Gregg Williams' hands.
     
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  18. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    'Cause Greg Williams is a "defensive genius".... right?
     
  19. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

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    To me it's clearly NOT a talent issue.

    1. They've rarely thrown the ball to Robby Anderson this season. They don't even try to get him the football the majority of the time.

    2. They run Bell into the line against stacked boxes. He's gone from being one of the more dynamic RB in the game a player that reminded me of Marshall Faulk in Pittsburgh into a 3 yards and a cloud of dust stinkin' old JAG Matt Forte clone.

    3. Those stacked boxes with NOTHING to back off the defense, nothing downfield, nothing to threaten the defense makes the O-line's job impossible. They've become the easy scapegoats.

    4. Where are the matchups the Jets can exploit? Where are the plays to beat the defense when they have/bring just about EVERYONE up at the line with only their corners on the outside in man coverage? The o-line is supposed to block all of those defenders? NE beat our defense with a big play to their TE when the Jets brought a house blitz last week.

    No imagination at all. This hasn't even looked like a professional offense for most of the season. Even in week 1 when they had everyone how many points did they score off all those Buffalo turnovers? They've made every defense they've faced this season look like reincarnations of the 2000 Ravens.
     
  20. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't let the 0 line off the hook so easily.

    They're getting blown up on nearly every play.

    But yeah... the play calls are compounding the problem.
     

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