http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html He's got us taking Sedrick Ellis and Gosder Cherilus. Definitely an interesting draft. Lets here some thoughts!
No Problem with me, build the Lines. (Although, I like C. Williams better than Cherilus) These Draft Guru's are starting to warm up to Ellis in the top 6. These Vernon Gholston picks are going to become a memory. Just wait.....Cromartie is going to be a top 15 pick and the second CB off the board.
Some great value there, I really like it. I really could see Ellis developing as a NT too if wanted, although I think he'd plug in just great at 3-4 DE as well.
Can't support that draft, even though I'd love Cherilus as a second round pick. Wright said it himself, taking a guy number six overall that isn't really a nose tackle for a 34 defense. That just flat out makes no sense to me, and I can't imagine that the Jets would make such a pick. Ellis is basically a more skilled Dewayne Robertson, which means he's still not going to be the type of big, strong Nose the Jets so desperately need. If given the choice of Dewayne for another year of mediocrity at NT and anyone else at 6, or Ellis at 6, I'd have to say the former, and it's not close. Ellis is a guy that weighed somewhere in the area of 280 to 290 the majority of his SC career, he just put on the weight to get to 308 for the draft because even 4-3 teams would have questioned his size.
I have seen Ellis play and I like it but I don't know I dont think he can do it against real big O linemen. I would rather have gholston personally but I wouldn't be upset. Gosder would be great I think he is a real talent.
That's not so, GH .. USC doesn't list new measurables for their players on a yearly basis, they list their measurables as incoming fresh and its never updated, those numbers remain the same in the SC media guide through their senior season Also, its not like anyone can say Ellis has lost a step at 308, he was the best player in Mobile {by far} all week at that weight, absolutely obliterating every OL they placed in his way .. he looked stout and quick as a cat I don't think anyone should question whether or not he can carry 310 after last week The only question is, can he carry 320
I think he will be able to play NT from what I've seen , no he isn't the biggest at the moment , but I'm sure when he gets on the NFL diet , things will change. Also he has a great asset , his speed which is going to cause big problems for linemen. This will help him enormously until he learns the ways of the NFL. If we get these 2 in the first 2 rounds I'd be ecstatic.
The same can be said about Gholston and his impending position change. You can look at this way.......Ghoston is no sure thing in coverage, something he's going to have to accomplish in the 3-4. He's played with his hand down most of his OSU career and "The Jet's are converting him to a 3-4LB" with the 6th pick.....why? There is a gamble, with both players..Ellis and Gholsten.....IMO, Ellis is the Elite prospect, Gholston isn't.
We said the same thing about Dwayne. And yes....I will acknowledge that Ellis is far stronger and more stout than Dwayne was as a prospect and probably is now. I mean...even if I could see Ellis playing NT (which I guess I kinda can)...I don't see him playing NT better than Gholston playing DE/OLB.
OK, IMO, Ellis' NFL playing weight is going to be around 315 lbs, which would be fine at NT. Wilfork is around 320 LB and made the 3-4 adjustment. Ellis has so much more of an upside, with proper coaching and his relentless motor, I believe he can make the adjustment.
I understand that the question is value, but how about relevance to scheme? If we were still a 4-3 team I'd be drooling at the possibility of drafting a player like Ellis, but I'm not certain that he's going to dominate in the middle. His quickness and athleticism is really irrelevant to the scheme. Sure, it's important that he get leverage and get off the ball quickly, but how is he going to hold up against the double team, and at that size, how much wear and tear is this system going to put on him? I think a Kelly Gregg type of guy is the exception to the rule, and we've got to be very careful about drafting a guy like this. -X-
It just amazes me that very few people think that Ghoston is a risk in the 3-4. I'm totally against spending the 6th pick on Gholston.....Huge risk.
USC does update their sizes, someone gave you some bad info on that one. If anything, they overestimate the sizes from year to year. I don't doubt that he's still a very good player up at the weight he is right now, but he's still not a Nose Tackle. He can gain ten pounds, still won't be a nose tackle. Wilfork isn't a lot bigger, but when it comes to strength and just controlling the line, they play totally different games. As for Gholston, he played Linebacker at Ohio State before moving down to the defensive end spot. Even then, he still actually played sort of a stand up end role much of the time, just like Bobby Carpenter did when he was a Buckeye.
Very good point and Ellis doesn't poke people in the eyes... Listen. A few pounds isn't going to make the difference as to whether he's a good NT or not. He can demand the double cover simply because of his explosiveness and his volatility once he gets behind the offensive line. He's already up to 308, as WW85 stated, if he gets up to the 315 mark he'll get the size and hopefully without sacrificing his speed, quickness and effectiveness. I like the Ellis pick and I think we get a great lineman from this. This could move Robertson to end where he belongs then our defensive line is Robertson, Ellis, Ellis. In my opinion, not bad. Cherlius would be AMAZING value in the second round but if he falls that far I'd be shocked. Also, we can get a quality pass rusher in later rounds. It doesn't have to be a 4-3 DE that we will convert to a 3-4 OLB. For instance, Beau Bell from UNLV would fit our scheme very well. He racked up 111 tackles, 3 sacks, and 4 interceptions in his senior year alone. He's expected to go as a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick. That is of course, just an example.
To start, I would be thrilled to get Cherilus in the 2nd round. I don't know what to think about Ellis as our NT. It seems like he can play the position, and has the size as he's a stout 308 pounds. Hey, Jason Ferguson is about the same and he's been effective in Dallas.
In that case I stand corrected on that point, GH .. I'll take your word for it, because frankly you're a lot smarter than the cat who told me otherwise :grin:
