NFL Players & Crime

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by Cliv Clav, May 15, 2020.

  1. Cliv Clav

    Cliv Clav Member

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    Hi all, been a Jets fan since 84 but live in England near London, so am not that familiar with laws in the US or NFL policy. I wonder if you could help with a couple of questions? That isn't one of them though!

    It is regarding NFL players that commit crimes. I have read/heard reports of many NFL players being arrested for criminal activity over the years, obviously some were not guilty, this is more about the ones who were found guilty.

    Do you think that any player that is found guilty of a serious crime should ever be allowed to play in the NFL again?

    Bearing in mind that there are so many good kids out there that don't get drafted or make active rosters, who would cherish the chance to represent a team in the NFL, is it not better to give them well paid jobs in the league rather than guys who have committed crimes or have tested positive in drug tests by the NFL?

    Should the NFL make new players coming into the league sign a contract, on camera, that says they will not receive any money from a team from the moment they commit a crime or test positive for drugs and will be banned for life also? Obviously, there would be a list of crimes that were considered serious enough to facilitate this ruling.

    They would have no complaints or grievances after that, as they had agreed to sign the contract on league entry. Surely this would act as a deterrent for players, show that the NFL wants to deal with and create law abiding members of the community and help to reduce crime a little too.

    Growing up I always wanted the chance to play in the NFL, but being born in England made that virtually impossible. It makes my blood boil to see people being paid millions (or at least very well) to play a wonderful game, go out and get involved in crime. If you want to commit crime or get high do it once you have lots of money from keeping fit and playing a game, or.... don't do it at all!!!

    I am not trying to start arguments on here, I genuinely think that people would hold the NFL in higher esteem if they had these policies in place. Just wondered what you all thought.

    Thanks & peace!
     
  2. Greenday4537

    Greenday4537 Well-Known Member

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    Once people pay their debt to society, we need to stop punishing them. Either the punishment was enough or it's not.
     
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  3. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    In California you can't ask a person's criminal history or investigate it as part of the hiring process. A league ban of such would likely violate this law and restrict their ability to do business in the state.
     
  4. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    Wow, really?

    So a person can rob the place he works and serve his time and then future employers are none the wiser to his trustworthiness, unbelievable.

    What about sex crimes, rape, paedophilia?

    The latter can just rock up looking for work involving kids?

    I hope this isn't true.
     
  5. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    I hope this doesn't apply to Darren Sharper. I'm being facetious, but what the frig. I'm not talking about people who are getting a second chance in life as they should, but I think if you broke the law you should forfeit the right to parade around as a non-offender in ALL cases. That isn't to say that something minor like check kiting - well, maybe that's a bad example because it isn't always minor - should follow someone around like a specter for the rest of their lives, but I think vetting someones's criminal background if they're going to be watching your two year old for example is reasonable. And yes, people who have paid their debt by and large should be left alone if the terms of their employment have nothing to do with the offense they may have committed a hundred years ago, but if you can't vet someone for child molestation if they're going to be watching watching your two year old, it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    I think I saw you say a few times in the past that you're from CA so I reckon you are particularly familiar with this law, but I guess the problem arises that if you run somebody's background everything that they ever did is going to come up, not just what you're specifically looking for.

    I'm straddling the fence on this one to be honest. I just want to be clear that I'm very much behind people who hire ex-convicts and I'm also very much behind ex-convicts who truly want to get the shit they've done out of their lives and move on if they've earned it and deserve it.
     
  6. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    Welcome! I think if the NFL would be more consistent as opposed to their consistent inconsistency it would make for a better debate. Or a clearer answer.
     
  7. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    California -- where the criminals are the victims:

    the bolded part is key, considering arrests or convictions of NFL players would be reported publicly -- it doesn't matter how the employer learns of past criminal history, it cannot be considered prior to making a job offer. An NFL rule that bans players from being signed outright for life solely for a criminal conviction, preventing a team from even being able to interview and sign him, would seem to violate California law.
     
  8. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    I read that in detail and it's ridiculous. I don't think that someone who got jailed for assault for slapping around the elderly in a Nursing Home should be able to apply at another Nursing Home after their release and cry foul if they're "discriminated against" and don't get hired. Is this me? Go get a job in Shoprite, for Fcks Sake. This reeks of dissimilar nonsense of that Nursing Home Director in PA who yanked out her very own mother and put her up in a hotel rather than leave her in there while she said publicly everything was fine. Fine, mind you, while all of the other residents were dying of a COVID-19 rage and bloom. In other words, it was fine for everyone else's mother, but not hers. I should go find it just for hypocrisy's sake, but I don't want to go off track too much.

    One thing I notice about your posts is that you present legalities as facts and not opinions. Whether or not you agree with those facts you tend to quantify that it's your OPINION in regard to those FACTS. I wish I saw that a lot more often. It doesn't matter how many times you say it to people, but OPINIONS ARE NOT FACTS. So thanks.
     
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  9. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    To your example, the deadweight loss of having to go through the song and dance of interviewing and making an offer before doing a background check to find out the prospect committed a crime in the same role you interviewed them for, before you can reject them for the crime, is incredible. Oh, and then you have to go through another song and dance to justify rescinding the offer, and potentially have to defend yourself if a complaint is filed.

    only a completely inefficient and delusional government could be oblivious of the inefficiency of this nonsensical law. But the ex-cons deserve more rights than you do.

    fingers crossed none of my kids want to stay here so I can just pack it up and retire elsewhere when the time comes.
     
  10. Greenday4537

    Greenday4537 Well-Known Member

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    They don't need a background check to find out that. Just a call to former employers. They don't have former employers? Don't hire them.
     
  11. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    Right, now I was going ta ask this but thought I'd leave it to see if it was mentioned.

    In the Uk, it is illegal to give a bad reference as an employer but of course, I am sure they will have a special way of coding it so people know fine well if Jack is a lazy sod who won't get out of bed on a morning etc or is just shit at his work.

    Still, if they are paedo's I would prefer a proper legal declaration or better still a tattoo on their forehead saying 'I AM A NONCE'
     
  12. Greenday4537

    Greenday4537 Well-Known Member

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    There's a difference between giving a bad review and stating a reason for why someone is terminated.
     
  13. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    Yes but we also have to put down criminal convictions on any job application form, it can be a sackable offence if it comes out after you have started the job.
     
  14. JackBower

    JackBower Well-Known Member

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    Same in Massachusetts. But they can perform a background and if a criminal history shows up they can consider that (or your lack of candor) during the hiring process.
     
  15. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    In California, the only information a previous employer can provide is the dates they were employed, maybe their job role; you can’t discuss performance, salary or why they left (terminates or quit).

    A former employer can sue a company for saying anything other than dates of employment or role. I assume anyone calling for a reference can read between the lines of a reference doesn’t voluntarily give a glowing review; just the basics would mean to avoid the applicant. But it’s still the law.
     
  16. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    We are prohibited from doing any background check, including criminal, until after a job offer has been made, and after you make the offer there is an entire formal process in which you have to justify why any criminal history prevents the applicant from being able to do the role. It’s absolutely insane.
     
  17. JackBower

    JackBower Well-Known Member

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    Yea that's BS. In MA the loophole is potential employers have you sign a document consenting to a background test during the hiring process. If you refuse to sign.. probably not getting employed.
     
  18. Cliv Clav

    Cliv Clav Member

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    Thanks for the thoughts and info everyone, interesting stuff indeed.

    I have known of people getting turned down for jobs at banks over here in the UK as they have been done for card fraud in the past. I know of an Internet company that wouldn’t hire someone as they had been convicted of a crime using the Internet. One German company I heard of wouldn’t employ anyone until they passed a physical, in case they were employing somebody with big health issues and were possibly going to be off a lot in the future! So, it is surprising that in some areas no background checks are done on potential employees, especially in certain industries.
     
  19. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    I remember in the past - can't name any particular one/ones off the top of my head, but I can substantively at the moment - about some school bus driver(s) who had a history of molesting children, served time for it, then got a job driving a school bus again. This was in NY (I think one case was in the Bx), and the parents freaked out (rightfully so) that there was no background check. Well,
    this guy thought that guy ran it, the other guy thought the other guy ran it, etc.

    How does that happen? Well, apparently it does. And think of the nerve involved m, the nerve of the child molester saying hell, I'll take a shot, MAYBE THEY WON'T NOTICE . . . and nobody noticed! o_O

    Sometimes NY gets it half-assed right at least by screening applicants WHEN THEY REMEMBER who will be working with children if they've ever been convicted of a crime involving children. How is that discriminatory in CA?

    I understand what you're saying, but what kind of jackass even proposes a bill like that? Shoplifting a candy bar has nothing to do with child molestation, drive a school bus, fine by me. Denied a job because you're a threat in your profession is a problem? What kind of idiocy is this?..

    What happens in CA if it's a job that requires you to be bonded? Just curious.
     
  20. alleycat9

    alleycat9 Well-Known Member

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    the nfls current policy is silly. its one of the big detractors for me with the league. i do not like the way the commissioner gets to decide guilt and levy out punishment and think that we already have a criminal justice system for that. but we live in a society that believes very much in judgement and punishment and they are not afraid to say it loud and proud..

    i have deeper feelings on it as well and some of the underlying issues but i dont feel like dealing with the bullshit that those comments will bring.

    and thats why this world is still a really fucked up place.
     

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