Jets trading for Haason Reddick

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Jonathan_Vilma, Mar 29, 2024.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    From Heavy.com:

     
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  3. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

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    Why are you comparing to second/third stringers? YOu’re effectively saying we need a number 10 pick who upgrades our bench.

    Nothing against Nabers et al. But they seem more redundant with GW or Williams than Bowers does with COnklin. As others have mentioned it’s not that Bowers is a good TE, it’s that he’s a different type all together and a difference maker (if used appropriately)
     
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  4. BrooklynJetsFan

    BrooklynJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Used appropriately is the key point. There's no way our OC staff uses Bowers properly – trade down and pick up an OT and 2nd round pick to use on WR.

    Look what Rams found in Nacua in the 5th !!!!
     
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  5. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    yeah how the hell did that happen anyway?

    Nacua was like the best rookie wideout I’ve seen since Randy Moss and they get him in round 5
     
  6. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    These 12 extra mil (which is called dead money after the player is released) is effectively already incurred, whether they release him or not. Think of it like this. Let's take last year for example. The Jets paid JFM 12 mil cash. However, due to CAP machinations he counted only 4 mil against the CAP in 2023. The difference of 8 mil of CAP is pushed down the road. Think of it as interest free loan. There was another 2 mil we pushed down the road from 2021 where we paid him 2 mil more than CAP figure. So, we are basically behind by 10 mil. We also already paid him 2 mil this year towards 2024 salary of 14 mil. So, if he is released today, that's the 12 mil of "dead" CAP (10 from before plus 2 paid this year). So, whether we keep him or release him, that's the 12 mil in CAP that will ultimately count against the Jets.

    What are we actually saving when we release him is the real question. He is scheduled to make 14 mil this year. We paid 2, and 12 are left. So, by releasing him we save 12 mil. If we keep him, that 12 mil will be added on top of 12 mil we already "loaned". We have to decide whether he is worth us saving 12 mil or not. Ideally we keep him, but maybe lower that number a bit and convert it to guaranteed. I definitely don't want to lose him this year.
     
  7. NOVAJET

    NOVAJET "2020 TGG Fantasy Football Champ"

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    The cap continues to baffle me. I just went by what I was seeing on OTC and hearing from podcasts and other pundits that we wouldn't save much by releasing him.
     
  8. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    When you talking about 1 year, strictly that number is correct. But when you factor in the context and overall picture, you are really saving 12 mil by cutting him. And I still want to keep him.
     
  9. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what I mentioned before. Restructure, reduce CAP for this season, and we will talk about extension once we see how things play out. Makes a lot of sense!
     
  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm comparing to 2nd and 3rd stringers because that's probably all of those players would be at the beginning of this season. I doubt that Bowers would start day 1. Fashanu would see starting time this season safeguarding Rodgers and the season, and then be a starter going forward. Nabers/Odunze/Thomas would be the 3rd option at WR this season, but then most likely would be a starter next season. One has to look at which positions are most important, and what the upgrade would be at one position vs another. That's part of team building.

    One also has to consider the offense that Bowers would be playing in and the QB who would be in essence calling the plays. Conklin has been woefully underutilized under Hackett. Hackett showed no creativity last season or ability to scheme players open. What makes you think that he would even be interested, much less capable of totally revamping his offense to revolve around Bowers? Even if he would and could do that, in Rodgers the Jets have a QB who doesn't like throwing to the middle of the field. Go back and look at the stats of where his throws have been over the last 5 years or so of his career. He avoids the middle of the field and throws to the boundaries more. The reason for that is he doesn't want to risk interceptions. The middle of the field is more crowded, it's easier for a pass to be tipped, knocked up into the air and intercepted. Do you think Rodgers would totally reverse course at 41 and suddenly start throwing to the middle of the field because we have Bowers? I don't, but even if he did, with no viable backup for Smith, Bowers would wind up being useless.

    If JD and Saleh are fired following this season, without one viable starting-caliber OT on the roster, the Jets would have a very difficult time finding anyone competent for GM and HC. Having a potential star at TE wouldn't change/alter that. If they're not fired, things aren't likely to change with the offense. Bowers would wind up being a wasted pick with the Jets.
     
    #330 NCJetsfan, Apr 2, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2024
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  11. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Moderator
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    I think what you say makes a lot of sense but I think OT and WR are both enough of a need that I think either would make perfect sense for our 1st round pick.

    A trade back in the 1st would be the best case scenario for us, unless Alt is somehow still available at 10, in that case you sprint the card to the podium. There is just so much OT and WR talent in the Day 1-2 range that I would love to get multiple picks to target those spots on the roster. I'd even be willing to go back pretty far in the 1st and target someone like Tyler Guyton. He's raw but the athleticism is off the charts and he'd get a year to learn under 2 of the best OTs and most likely get some PT here and there throughout the year. Any trade back where we can get back into the 2nd round would be my ideal draft day move for us on Day 1.

    I do disagree with you on Bowers though. He's such a massive upgrade as a receiving threat that you can just view him as our WR2 if it makes you feel better. I can easily see a pathway to him being our 2nd leading receiver for this year if he's our first round pick. Would he warrant a 1st round pick in that case? I would argue yes but as I've said, I don't think we HAVE to pick Bowers, just that I would totally understand the pick if it happened. I also wouldn't let Saleh and/or Hackett totally dictate who I draft if I'm JD. Those guys are 1 season away from being out, as is JD, so I'm just trying to add the best possible offensive prospect I can.
     
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  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    There's the rub. It's not what would make me feel better, but all about how the Jets see him. If they see him as a TE - one with more hybrid skills, but a TE nonetheless - then I don't think he'll be used by Hackett to his full potential, and to me that's a serious risk. Why take that risk that your #10 pick doesn't really work out when you could draft a stud Tackle who has a much better chance of seeing the field this year and becoming a fixture on the team for 10 years or more?

    And yes, there are no guarantees that any Tackle the Jets draft will succeed to that extent, but that's true of ALL draftees, including Bowers despite all his hype.

    The OL has been a dumpster fire for so long it can't be put on the back burner any longer. It's long past time to make it the actual #1 priority it should be at this point.
     
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  13. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit wary of this move only because of how Philly ended last season.

    The Eagles have been one of the better run organizations in all of sports since the turn of the century. It's safe to say they know what they're doing makes me think they know something the Jets may have overlooked.

    I hope it works out for the Jets.
     
  14. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    The problem is though is that he is not a WR2. He is a TE. We would literally have to make belief and pretend he is a WR2 to view his as such. Again, take a look at the contributions of all pass catchers in NFL last year: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/stat/receiving

    Even the absolute best TE - Kittle - is #24 on the list. #24. The best pass catchers in NFL are actual WRs, not TEs, whom we can only pretend to be WRs. If you want a weapon, picking a WR is a no brainer. Odunze may still be there. And even if not, Brian Thomas will be around and other actual WRs.
     
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  15. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Moderator
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    I agree that OT and/or WR would be my preference at 10, or anywhere in the 1st round and 2nd round for that matter. I just don't see any slam-dunk, blue-chip OT prospects after Alt. That's not to say he's the only one that will pan out from this class, I'm sure at least a handful of these guys will turn into competent starters or better at OT.

    As you said, there's a risk for anyone that gets drafted, as we know all too well from our long-list of draft busts. I think you just have to trust in your process and let the chips fall where they may. Even the best GMs don't bat 1.000, hell they usually don't even bat .500. If the Jets believe that Bowers could be a legit weapon for this offense, I would have no issue with him being the pick at 10, that's all I've been trying to say.
     
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  16. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Moderator
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    Then think of him as your 2nd best receiving threat then. However you want to think about it, I think there's a legit chance Bowers could come in and be our 2nd leading receiver next year behind GW.

    If Nabers, Odunze, Thomas Jr., etc. came in and accomplished the same, we'd all say it was a great pick at 10. The same should be said about Bowers. Idc where our receiving production comes from, I just want difference-makers in the receiving game and it's my belief that Bowers COULD be that guy.

    In the link you just provided, the top TEs were their teams 2nd (Kittle), 1st (Kelce), 2nd (Engram), 2nd (Hockenson), 2nd (LaPorta), and 2nd (Njoku) leading receivers.

    Is that level of production not worth the 10th pick?
     
  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I agree that if the Jets believe he can be a legit weapon for them then if they take him at #10 I'm not going to cry...with this caveat: They damn sure better figure out to use him and not just force fit him into their shitty offense and expect him to work miracles". I'm doubtful they'll do this, there's no prior evidence they'll do this, so I'll be shocked - pleasantly - if they do.

    Even so, I think OT is the the only correct thing to do - other than trading back a bit and then taking an OT. Without a solid, dependable, OL this team isn't going anywhere, Rodgers or not. There are several stud Tackles available (Alt, Fashanu, Latham), and at least one should be there at #10. A WR2 or a TE can be had even in the 3rd round, and that's how I would approach this draft.
     
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  18. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

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    it's a good point but i kind of care where the production comes from too. I think one of the Pats tricks was they had receiving theats all over the place, out of the backfield, one or even two TEs (back in the day) and largely mediocre receivers (Randy Moss excluded) who could do damage if you forgot about them. it makes it difficult for the Defense
     
  19. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    And that worked because they always had a very good, if not great, OL.
     
  20. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

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    I might beg to differ. The OL for sure was effective and they definitely had some talent, but they were greatly, greatly aided by the system. They got rid of the ball quickly so weaknesses in pass blocking could be masked to a large degree. The balance in their offense kept the defense off balance.

    compare that to us when we're in constant third and longs. That makes it tough for any O-line.

    also when you think of the Pats line, do you think "man, they had great tackles"? I don't. Sme of those guys when they left for FA were exposed. I usually think of their strength as uards and centers
     

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